Polartec vs Thinsulate

[jonnythan]

OK, I guess that depends on how you define wicking. No matter how you do, though, a classic Polartec 100/200/300 fabric is very very poor at wicking. It's designed that way - it's meant to be hydrophobic and repel water as much as possible, which makes it an OK diving undergarment. If you wear a Polartec Classic fabric against the skin and you start sweating you will *not* be happy. There's a reason you wear long underwear agains the skin, and put fleece on top of that.

 

[Snowbear]

I have the DC stretchy thinsulate that came with my original "package" of gear I bought from the LDS when I got certified. I found out it just wasn't enough by itself when the water is less than 40F, even with Argon.

I'm still working on the right combination of layers to stay warm and still be able to reach my valves, but it looks like I'll be able to add a microfleece vest over the "expedition underwear" layer from REI with the DC Thinsulate over that. I have to add ~ 4-6# to my weighting to compensate, but it sute is worth it to stay warm on those longer dives!!

I did find out my Tech1 instructor was right - it's not the amount of gas in your suit that keeps you warm, it's the undies. You just need to put enough gas in the suit to loft the undies so they can do their job. There's no need to stay uncomfortably squeezed. If you use undies that need a lot of loft, you'll need a whole lot more gas and you'll start getting that "dynamic instability" thing going.

The Thinsulate is excellent for minimal loft and still providing maximum insulation. The polar fleece is a close second. The microfleece is a tighter weave and so far seems really good as an under the undies layer with minumal loft, yet provides that little bit of extra to keep the core warm.

One more thing - a quality hood is critical to keeping the heat loss from your head to a minimum!!

 

[scubadobadoo]

I think you are a little confused as to what "wicking" means.
Wicking means to move something, liquid being the object we are discussing, by capillary action. Cotton ABSORBS liquid, polypro and fleece 'wick' by transporting the liquid from the inner side to the outer side of the material. Fleece is an excellent wick and has very little absorbant qualities. Though if your suit becomes flooded and you are wearing fleece, you will get cold quickly. This is not the case with Thinsulate materials as they have a lot of surface area and hold air even when flooded (this comes from GI3 in a post to WKPP divers, But don't believe evrything you read on the internet!)

That's what I was trying to say on page three Robert. "Absorbs" was the word I failed to use when talking about cotton undies being a no no. Thanks for the clarification. Wicking is a strange concept.

At any rate, LP sells Bare CT200 thinsulate suits for only $159. I had one, I lost 35 pounds and had to sell it. When it fit, it was awesome. So, I suggest Softwear by Janice or the LP Bare CT200 thinsulate to the orginal poster. Probably the Softwear is what I would choose (as jonnythan stated) given the warmth of the springs and Florida, plus the ease of care and the CUSTOM fit and awesome service she gives. My CUSTOM 300 weight suit and vest arrived 5 days after I ordered it! Can't say enough good about her!

 

[Robert Phillips]

OK, I guess that depends on how you define wicking. No matter how you do, though, a classic Polartec 100/200/300 fabric is very very poor at wicking. It's designed that way - it's meant to be hydrophobic and repel water as much as possible, which makes it an OK diving undergarment. If you wear a Polartec Classic fabric against the skin and you start sweating you will *not* be happy. There's a reason you wear long underwear agains the skin, and put fleece on top of that.

Can 'wicking' be defined any other way?
From dictionary.com
Wick:
1. A cord or strand of loosely woven, twisted, or braided fibers, as on a candle or oil lamp, that draws up fuel to the flame by capillary action.
2. A piece of material that conveys liquid by capillary action.

From the Compact Oxford English Dictionary:
Wick •verb absorb or draw off (liquid) by capillary action.

The hydrophobic properties of fleece is the reason why it wicks moisture. Wicking is transport. The material does not soak up the liquid, it moves it away. Read any outdoor gear supply store FAQ on fleece. They tout it's wicking properties. Fleece will keep you warm and DRY due to it's wicking properties.
I wear polypro underwear under my fleece to aid in the transport of my sweat. The fleece would do fine by itself, but I sweat a lot!

 

[Robert Phillips]

That's what I was trying to say on page three Robert. "Absorbs" was the word I failed to use when talking about cotton undies being a no no. Thanks for the clarification. Wicking is a strange concept.

At any rate, LP sells Bare CT200 thinsulate suits for only $159. I had one, I lost 35 pounds and had to sell it. When it fit, it was awesome. So, I suggest Softwear by Janice or the LP Bare CT200 thinsulate to the orginal poster. Probably the Softwear is what I would choose (as jonnythan stated) given the warmth of the springs and Florida, plus the ease of care and the CUSTOM fit and awesome service she gives. My CUSTOM 300 weight suit and vest arrived 5 days after I ordered it! Can't say enough good about her!

I picked up a DUI 300wt Action Wear fleece form 5th D in Washington when I was up there last month for $168. I love it! Kept me very warm on Sunday in 55 degree water, as well as the 53 degree water in the Sound.
It sure beats the sweatsuit I was wearing before!
Robb

 

[scubadobadoo]

I picked up a DUI 300wt Action Wear fleece form 5th D in Washington when I was up there last month for $168. I love it! Kept me very warm on Sunday in 55 degree water, as well as the 53 degree water in the Sound.
It sure beats the sweatsuit I was wearing before!
Robb

That's a great price Robert! Add a vest and you will be truly toasty!

 

[mech]

Is the DUI 300wt action wear fleece the same thing (more or less) as Janice's 300wt fleece?

 

[simbrooks]

Now there is a questions, are all polartec type fleeces the same? Are all thinsulate suits built the same? I am talking of the same thicknesses/weight here. From what i have read there could be differences in the composition/fibre attachment (cant think of the word now, fabrics arent my strong point) between different manufacturers even if the thickness/weight is the same.

The options i saw for thin undergarments in polartec mentioned the thinner ones were noted as "dry" and the write up concentrated on mentioning wicking to keep you dry, whereas the thicker (expedition set) were denoted as "stretch" and didnt have quite the same write up as the drying effect as much as the mobility, but the cost was considerably more for the stretch than the dry versions - yet they all seemed to give a little.

 

[jonnythan]

I've *heard* that DUI's 300 weight is actually two layers of 150 sandwiched together, but I'm not 100% on that. DUI uses PowerStretch instead of Classic fabrics though. Powerstretch is usually a bit more dense [heavy] and stretchy, unlike Classic which is very lightweight but doesn't stretch a lot. It might actually be a little more compression resistant. Overall there probably wouldn't be much if any insulating difference.. certainly none that make the DUI worth over 4 times as much

 

[jonnythan]

Now there is a questions, are all polartec type fleeces the same? Are all thinsulate suits built the same? I am talking of the same thicknesses/weight here. From what i have read there could be differences in the composition/fibre attachment (cant think of the word now, fabrics arent my strong point) between different manufacturers even if the thickness/weight is the same.

No and no. Polartec makes a dozen different fabrics, their Classic series being what you typically think of as fleece. There are a number of cheaper fleeces on the market, but Malden Mills/Polartec is generally the best (best finish, most resistant to pilling, most compression resistant, etc). A fleece suit is really going to be more or less a fleece suit.

Thinsulate suits vary greatly. Diving Concepts makes a few.. they have TPS Thinsulate, TPS Thinsulate Extreme, TPS Stretch Thinsulate, and TPS Stretch Thinsulate Extreme. The non-extreme uses 100gm Thinsulate and the extreme uses 200gm. The non-stretch uses Type C Thinsulate, which is light weight "compressible" Thinsulate, and the Stretch uses Stretch Thinsulate.

The Type C is supposedly warmer than the stretch for the same weight rating. The DC suits are quilted to prevent separation, and have a layer of fleece on the inside. The non-stretch version has the stretchy material on the arms and on a wide waistband.

DUI uses Type B ("boot") Thinsulate, which isn't as warm per weight rating than Type C, but resists compression better so may be equivalent when your drysuit has a little squeeze on it. It may be a little better or a little worse, I dunno. DUI also has a thin fleece layer on the inside, but does not have any of the stretch material so you need more bulk in the arms and shoulders to get the same range of movement.

The Viking suits appear to be very similar to the DUI suits, but I don't know what the differences really are.

The options i saw for thin undergarments in polartec mentioned the thinner ones were noted as "dry" and the write up concentrated on mentioning wicking to keep you dry, whereas the thicker (expedition set) were denoted as "stretch" and didnt have quite the same write up as the drying effect as much as the mobility, but the cost was considerably more for the stretch than the dry versions - yet they all seemed to give a little.

The thin fabrics (PowerStretch, PowerDry, N2S) are designed to be worn right on the skin and do a good job of wicking and drying quickly.

The insulating fabrics (Classic, ThermalPro, WindPro) are not designed to wick and they do a poor job at it. Wearing fleece insulation against the skin is not adviseable. These are fluffy fabrics designed as an insulating layer, but made to be worn with a wicking layer underneath.