Polartec vs Thinsulate

[hardhat]

Thinsulate does not wick sweat away. Polartec does not wick sweat away. Both are very hydrophobic and very very poor at wicking. Cotton wicks sweat away very well, as do polypropylene and polyester fabrics [edit: cotton does a significantly better job at wicking than almost anything else]. Thinsulate and [to a lesser extent] Polartec are good for diving undersuits because they retain warmth when wet by *not* wicking up the water. Try this experiment: pour some water on your counter and try to wipe it up with a piece of fleece. The fleece just spreads it around, it doesn't wick it up.

Some undersuits have a layer of wicking material built into them - this is usually a polyester-type fabric on the innermost layer. I think this is a bad idea, because you want to be able to wash the layer soaking up the sweat but not wash the Thinsulate. I have a Diving Concepts suit that has thin fleece on the inside, and I wear a layer of synthetic wicking undergarments underneath. I will wash the long underwear (EMS Bergelene) after every couple of days of diving specifically so I can avoid washing the undergarment itself.

To wash Thinsulate, you should do it by hand with a very small amount of detergent, if any. Rinse twice as much as you think is adequate, then hang it up to dry.

Polartech does wick moister away from your body. It pulls the moister away from you and pushes it through to the out side surface of the polartech. Wicking does not mean that moister is held by the material.

 

[jonnythan]

Polartech does wick moister away from your body. It pulls the moister away from you and pushes it through to the out side surface of the polartech. Wicking does not mean that moister is held by the material.

That's some magic fabric..

 

[simbrooks]

I hit one of the local outdoor stores on the way home, they seemed to have mostly polypro or fleece undergarments, either lightweight (suggested for constant activity), medium weight (stop/start) or expedition (less mobile/active) - you could tell they went up in weight/thickness, but still i felt they were only undergarments as they didnt get much thicker than a polo shirt. They had lots of perforations and were said to help wick away moisture, i'm still on the lookout for thicker insulating underwear, but this looked a good start for a first layer

 

[eastcoastdiver]

Thinsulate does not wick sweat away. Polartec does not wick sweat away. Both are very hydrophobic and very very poor at wicking. Cotton wicks sweat away very well, as do polypropylene and polyester fabrics [edit: cotton does a significantly better job at wicking than almost anything else]. Thinsulate and [to a lesser extent] Polartec are good for diving undersuits because they retain warmth when wet by *not* wicking up the water. Try this experiment: pour some water on your counter and try to wipe it up with a piece of fleece. The fleece just spreads it around, it doesn't wick it up.

Some undersuits have a layer of wicking material built into them - this is usually a polyester-type fabric on the innermost layer. I think this is a bad idea, because you want to be able to wash the layer soaking up the sweat but not wash the Thinsulate. I have a Diving Concepts suit that has thin fleece on the inside, and I wear a layer of synthetic wicking undergarments underneath. I will wash the long underwear (EMS Bergelene) after every couple of days of diving specifically so I can avoid washing the undergarment itself.

To wash Thinsulate, you should do it by hand with a very small amount of detergent, if any. Rinse twice as much as you think is adequate, then hang it up to dry.

For some one who has as many post as you do, you would think that you might know what your talking about. The problem is that you don't. You dont want to use cotton under your undergarments.

 

[jonnythan]

For some one who has as many post as you do, you would think that you might know what your talking about. The problem is that you don't. You dont want to use cotton under your undergarments.

LOL. How about you quote the line where I recommended using cotton as underwear?

I said cotton does a fantastic job at wicking. It does.

 

[jonnythan]

I hit one of the local outdoor stores on the way home, they seemed to have mostly polypro or fleece undergarments, either lightweight (suggested for constant activity), medium weight (stop/start) or expedition (less mobile/active) - you could tell they went up in weight/thickness, but still i felt they were only undergarments as they didnt get much thicker than a polo shirt. They had lots of perforations and were said to help wick away moisture, i'm still on the lookout for thicker insulating underwear, but this looked a good start for a first layer

Yeah, when you're being relatively active (like when you're, say, mountaineering), the small variations in thickness in the polypro make a lot of difference. Since synthetic fibers are basically plastic, you need to weave the fibers in the right way to get the right wicking action into the fabric. A single polyester fiber won't soak up water - but a cotton one will. Cotton does a fantastic job at wicking.

The reason polyester makes a better underwear layer is that the cotton does such a good job of soaking up the water, it holds virtually all of that moisture in the fiber against your skin - and that water, as you learned in OW class, conducts heat away 25 times faster than air. The synthetic fiber will pull away and soak up the moisture, but it will have enough air spaces in between the threads that there is a lot of surface area, as well as trapped air. This will allow the moisture to evaporate quickly as well as keep you warm in the process.

A cotton shirt will wick up four times as much moisture as a polyester Techwick shirt, but it will be so saturated there will be no air in the cotton and the surface area of water exposed to the air will be very low.

This all adds up to cotton doing *too good* a job at wicking and therefore doing a much better job at cooling you off when wet. Synthetic fabrics can only wick so much (which is usually more than sufficient for dealing with sweat), but the trapped air keeps you warm and allows the water to evaporate more quickly.

*takes a deep breath*

Fleece does a fantastically poor job of wicking because the fibers are not arranged in the right way. Fleece is brushed polyester (or acrylic with the cheap stuff). It's just polyester with loops of fiber pulled up out of the fabric. The total randomness of the fiber arrangement on the surface means fleece does an absolutely horrid job of wicking. Lay down a fleece on a wet table one day and see how much water it picks up - you might be surprised to find it picks up very very little compared to a polyester wicking shirt, and almost none compared to a paper towel or cotton shirt.


Any more questions?

 

[simbrooks]

I have a nice polyolefin rash vest that i use with my wetsuit, take off the upper half and i am wicked dry in no time, not sure its all that useful for this application though. Still have a few more outdoor stores to hit before i start thinking of looking at major $$$ for something with a dive flag on it.

You seem to be doing well at explaining Jon, i will also get my ex-mountain-dwelling roommate to give me a 101 when he gets back from his latest travels, he seems well up on this stuff and if i cared to search i am sure i would find every type of material in his wardrobe for hiking etc.

 

[jonnythan]

I"m a cheapskate.

Seriously, I'm the cheapest SOB you'll ever meet. I'll do whatever I can to save a buck.

If you're planning on diving no lower than 60, get a decent set of long underwear (virtually anything non-cotton will work for this.. sierratradingpost.com and rei-outlet.com will likely have stuff for pretty cheap) under one of SoftWear Diving's 200 weight fleece suits would probably be the best value you can get. By the time you buy insulation and long underwear at a sporting goods store you'll spend about the same.. and Janice at SoftWear makes great suits from the highest quality fleece out there.

Full custom suit for $160. I couldn't imagine wasting time with anything else.

 

[jonnythan]

http://www.rei.com/outlet/product/47848048.htm? and http://www.rei.com/outlet/product/47848035.htm? are perfect. You'll notice they use an acrylic inner layer.. which does a decent job of wicking, but usually provides more warmth than polyester. Medalist makes quality gear.. and it's on sale

 

[Robert Phillips]

Yeah, when you're being relatively active (like when you're, say, mountaineering), the small variations in thickness in the polypro make a lot of difference. Since synthetic fibers are basically plastic, you need to weave the fibers in the right way to get the right wicking action into the fabric. A single polyester fiber won't soak up water - but a cotton one will. Cotton does a fantastic job at wicking.

The reason polyester makes a better underwear layer is that the cotton does such a good job of soaking up the water, it holds virtually all of that moisture in the fiber against your skin - and that water, as you learned in OW class, conducts heat away 25 times faster than air. The synthetic fiber will pull away and soak up the moisture, but it will have enough air spaces in between the threads that there is a lot of surface area, as well as trapped air. This will allow the moisture to evaporate quickly as well as keep you warm in the process.

A cotton shirt will wick up four times as much moisture as a polyester Techwick shirt, but it will be so saturated there will be no air in the cotton and the surface area of water exposed to the air will be very low.

This all adds up to cotton doing *too good* a job at wicking and therefore doing a much better job at cooling you off when wet. Synthetic fabrics can only wick so much (which is usually more than sufficient for dealing with sweat), but the trapped air keeps you warm and allows the water to evaporate more quickly.

*takes a deep breath*

Fleece does a fantastically poor job of wicking because the fibers are not arranged in the right way. Fleece is brushed polyester (or acrylic with the cheap stuff). It's just polyester with loops of fiber pulled up out of the fabric. The total randomness of the fiber arrangement on the surface means fleece does an absolutely horrid job of wicking. Lay down a fleece on a wet table one day and see how much water it picks up - you might be surprised to find it picks up very very little compared to a polyester wicking shirt, and almost none compared to a paper towel or cotton shirt.


Any more questions?

I think you are a little confused as to what "wicking" means.
Wicking means to move something, liquid being the object we are discussing, by capillary action. Cotton ABSORBS liquid, polypro and fleece 'wick' by transporting the liquid from the inner side to the outer side of the material. Fleece is an excellent wick and has very little absorbant qualities. Though if your suit becomes flooded and you are wearing fleece, you will get cold quickly. This is not the case with Thinsulate materials as they have a lot of surface area and hold air even when flooded (this comes from GI3 in a post to WKPP divers, But don't believe evrything you read on the internet!)