Ken Kurtis
Contributor
Not trying start a big back-and-forth here but . . .
The analogy I sometimes use is you take the 9AM ferry over to an island and get off. You fully intend to take the 11AM ferry back. While you're off the boat and on the island walking around, at 10AM you step off a curb without looking and are hit and killed by a truck. Is that the fault of the boat captain? Because he took you to the island and if he hadn't, this wouldn't have happened. Would you hold him/her negligent? And if the answer is no, what's the difference between that and willingly jumping off the boat with the intention of coming back but doing something underwater that's the equivalent of stepping in front of a moving truck?
I'm not trying to goad or troll you here but suppose the boat goes to a site that has a moderate slope to it. The boat anchors in 30 feet of water. The slope goes up to the surface as you go shallower, and exceeds recreational depths as you go deeper. But it can be easily dove (dived?? diven???) at any depth. There are no currents, visibility, or other issues, only depth. You have a mix of OW, Advanced, Master, and other divers on board. There is no training going on. The boat captain briefs the site and even says, "If you are only OW-certified, please stay above 60 feet. If you are Advanced, please stay above 100 feet. And everyone should remember the maximum recreational dive depth is 130 feet for any qualified diver on any dive." So two questions:
1. Does that briefing meet your standard of due diligence?
2. Whether it does or doesn't, how would you suggest the boat captain ensure that no diver exceeds their qualified depth?
And this whole line of discussion totally ignores something that's more of a west coast thing than an east coast thing which is a boat that's chartered as opposed to "open". In other words, many (most??) east coast boats have you sign up directly with the boat and they provide the DMs, choose the dives sites, etc. Many west coast boats - especially SoCal - run as open boats but also charter to dive shops where the shop solicits the divers, provides the DMs, and sets the dive location. How does that change things, if at all?
I think what it simply comes down to is we live in a society where people don't like to take responsibility for their own actions or inactions. They tend to want to blame someone else. Divers screw up. Boats screw up. DMs screw up. Instructors screw up. But a lot of times, we seem not to make any distinction and simply say, "Blame the boat guy because he/she took them there."
(Which begs the other questions: Who do you blame for a shore-entry dive where the OW diver exceeds their depth limit and then dies? Should a suit be filed against the lifeguard? Or against the city where the beach is located if no lifeguard was on duty? Again, where do you draw the line?)
- Ken
Yes and no. The training agencies had made it VERY clear that they are just that: TRAINING agencies. By that, I mean they set standards for training divers, but they do NOT set standards for how those divers dive once they are certified at any given level. You may see phrases like "recommended depth following certification" or something like that, but they all make it pretty clear that once you're certified, it's out of their hands unless it's a training issue.. . . the dive industry has made certification in a variety of 'specialties" a formal thing. You don't just have "divers" aboard, you have OW Divers, AOW divers, Nitrox divers, AN/DP divers, solo etc.
I hope you don't think that's what I'm saying because I'm not at all remotely suggesting that. But I AM saying they get blamed for things outside of their influence (as do shops & instructors). From a boat standpoint, I would say they certainly have a duty to you while you're on the boat and on the way out to the dive site, on the way back, as well as on the surface either pre-submerge or post-surfacing. But how can they possibly have a duty to monitor your dive and prevent you from doing dangerous things when you're underwater and out of their influence? Since you brought up skydiving, does the airplane pilot who took you up have a responsibility to make sure you pop your chute at the right time?. . . a boat captain/charter op isn't just a taxi, they have a responsibility to exercise due diligence and judgement.
The analogy I sometimes use is you take the 9AM ferry over to an island and get off. You fully intend to take the 11AM ferry back. While you're off the boat and on the island walking around, at 10AM you step off a curb without looking and are hit and killed by a truck. Is that the fault of the boat captain? Because he took you to the island and if he hadn't, this wouldn't have happened. Would you hold him/her negligent? And if the answer is no, what's the difference between that and willingly jumping off the boat with the intention of coming back but doing something underwater that's the equivalent of stepping in front of a moving truck?
If that's the route you want to go, then you should add "Oil Rig" certified, "Low Visibility" certified, "Current" certified, "Saturday dive" certified, "Holiday" certified, etc. Where would you suggest we draw the line?That means if you are going deeper than 60, a AOW or higher card, if you are going over 100 a Deep diver card, it could be argued that any diver that is going on a boat should be "boat specialty diver" certified as well.
I'm not trying to goad or troll you here but suppose the boat goes to a site that has a moderate slope to it. The boat anchors in 30 feet of water. The slope goes up to the surface as you go shallower, and exceeds recreational depths as you go deeper. But it can be easily dove (dived?? diven???) at any depth. There are no currents, visibility, or other issues, only depth. You have a mix of OW, Advanced, Master, and other divers on board. There is no training going on. The boat captain briefs the site and even says, "If you are only OW-certified, please stay above 60 feet. If you are Advanced, please stay above 100 feet. And everyone should remember the maximum recreational dive depth is 130 feet for any qualified diver on any dive." So two questions:
1. Does that briefing meet your standard of due diligence?
2. Whether it does or doesn't, how would you suggest the boat captain ensure that no diver exceeds their qualified depth?
And this whole line of discussion totally ignores something that's more of a west coast thing than an east coast thing which is a boat that's chartered as opposed to "open". In other words, many (most??) east coast boats have you sign up directly with the boat and they provide the DMs, choose the dives sites, etc. Many west coast boats - especially SoCal - run as open boats but also charter to dive shops where the shop solicits the divers, provides the DMs, and sets the dive location. How does that change things, if at all?
I think what it simply comes down to is we live in a society where people don't like to take responsibility for their own actions or inactions. They tend to want to blame someone else. Divers screw up. Boats screw up. DMs screw up. Instructors screw up. But a lot of times, we seem not to make any distinction and simply say, "Blame the boat guy because he/she took them there."
(Which begs the other questions: Who do you blame for a shore-entry dive where the OW diver exceeds their depth limit and then dies? Should a suit be filed against the lifeguard? Or against the city where the beach is located if no lifeguard was on duty? Again, where do you draw the line?)
- Ken