Point-for-point on what's missing from OW Classes

[Rick Murchison]

And now that we've established, in six or more pages, that more and better instruction in trim and buoyancy need to be included in basic OW, I'll start yet another thread to see if there's anything else that needs adding. If you have something other than "buoyancy and trim" to add, please try it there.
Rick

 

[DiverBuoy]

I'd love to hear your views.

 

[Rick Murchison]

DiverBuoy once bubbled...
I'd love to hear your views.

I haven't read the PADI AOW curriculum; I can only judge by the products I've seen...
Rick

 

[MikeFerrara]

cwb once bubbled...


I would say that in order to improve the situation in the general population of divers that:

• Divers should be shown good and bad examples of trim
• Divers should be shown the effects of weight placement on trim
• Divers should be taught to overcome our natural vertical (upright) inclination.
• Get Divers into a good trim position and get them to internalize the feeling
• Have divers observe and comment on other student's/diver's trim
• Video tape class to align mental image of self-trim with actual trim

If everyone is covering it, yet so many forget/neglect to demonstrate good trim, then my hypothesis is that it isn't emphasized enough. Perhaps the bullet points above might help.

wb

Right on the money! These points should be added to the list of performance requirements. I'm working on the video, I am sad to say we don't have that capability yet. We need to talk.

DB, what is the definition of mastery learning? It isn't time or cost dependant is it? It is true that divers are not even being required to master the performance requirements we have. Fixing this issue would be a step in the right direction.

Rick is right when you charge more there are those who go down the street to the bargin place. We can't help those people except to try to educate them when we see them crawling in the bottom.

I have produced my share of lousy divers and had my share of OW training dives that were CF's. Then...I noticed my students dove like all the rest. Eventually I came to the conclusion that something wasn't right even though I was doing everything the way I was tought.

 

[detroit diver]

Rick,

I understand what you say about the competition in regards to cost and class time. That's why this has to be changed from the very top of the food chain-PADI (or NAUI, or ....) headquarters. They've given too much leeway for those that want to offer inferior courses.

 

[MikeFerrara]

detroit diver once bubbled...
Rick,

I understand what you say about the competition in regards to cost and class time. That's why this has to be changed from the very top of the food chain-PADI (or NAUI, or ....) headquarters. They've given too much leeway for those that want to offer inferior courses.

The portion of the market that wants a fast cheap course is part of it but not all. The LDS needs the numbers more than anyone else because the manufacturers insist on it. If a shop doesn't have the big name brands they don't sell equipment and equipment is the only place there is a profit. The big manufacturers DEMAND the numbers. The agency competes for shops and the shops compete for divers (equipment sales). The shop responds to the demands of the manufacturers and the customer while the agency responds to the needs of the shop.

Lots of folks like the way we teach but I don't put throught the numbers required to get a SP or Aqualung dealership dealership. I won't/can't commit to the up fron costs and ongoing volume. The result is I keep my day job and tell the decission makers in the industry to bite me.

I have said before that anyone who blames the agencies and lets the manufacturers off the hook is flat out wrong.

 

[detroit diver]

Mike,

I understand how it works, I just disagree that it has to happen that way if the agencies cared about quality. No business should have to break even or lose money on one part of it's business in order to satisfy the other end of it's (unrelated) business. I know that's the reality right now, but it is possible to change if the powers that be really wanted to do so.

This industry has gotten into a no-win situation for the LDS. You do the work for the agencies (PADI, Naui, etc) and pay the rent for the manufaturer's goods. When times get slow, their revenues slow down, but they don't have the fixed costs (comparatively) that you have. Your overhead is still due at the end of every month, regardless. And we wont even get into online sales....

 

[Jarhead]

detroit diver once bubbled...
Rick,

I understand what you say about the competition in regards to cost and class time. That's why this has to be changed from the very top of the food chain-PADI (or NAUI, or ....) headquarters. They've given too much leeway for those that want to offer inferior courses.

Padi, NAUI, SSI, NASE, ect. are NOT the top of the food chain. Take it up another notch to the Recreational Scuba Training Council(RSTC). These are the people who created (and can change) the minimum standards. These standards apply to all (US) agencies.

Jarhead

 

[raybo]

Should be AOS ~ Advertising for Other Specialties!

DiverBuoy once bubbled...

I'd love to here your views (re: AOW)

Rick Murchison once bubbled...

I haven't read the PADI AOW curriculum; I can only judge by the products I've seen...
Rick

While some of the specialties that PADI offer may have some value, the AOW course (manual material, anyway) is little more than an advertisement leader for all of the other specialties they have to offer.

It was a requirement to some of the specialties I really wanted to take, so I had little choice, but aside from that, I really don't see a lot of merit to calling it an "advanced" course. It's basically an "introductory" course to the other things you can spend your money on in the PADI realm.

It still didn't address the phyisology & physics that I found sorely lacking in the BOW course. From what I can tell, you can't get that in PADI until at least DM or maybe instructor.

IMHO, if that were still required, the diving community would be a lot better served. Oh yeah, you're probably going to have to have either had or be able to complete a high school physics, biology and 2nd year algebra class. But if you can't commit to that level (and I consider those a minimal amount of science), then I don't think you need to be diving.

My opinion, and no amount corporate line rhetoric is going to change that.

It is not an unreasonable expectation to require a better than average level of intelligence and physcial ability to participate in this activity!

Part of the reason I will probably never become an instuctor. At leas not a PADI instructor. I just don't think I could, in good conscious, send people out into the water with such a sorely lacking understanding of the science of diving.

Call it a sport if you want, but it is still a science.

 

[detroit diver]

Jarhead once bubbled...


Padi, NAUI, SSI, NASE, ect. are NOT the top of the food chain. Take it up another notch to the Recreational Scuba Training Council(RSTC). These are the people who created (and can change) the minimum standards. These standards apply to all (US) agencies.

Jarhead

So who makes up the RTSC?

Regardless, just because an organization sets the minimum standards, it doesn't mean that you can't improve on these standards to improve the quality of your product and produce a better end result.