Point and shoot options

[Tripophobia]

Hi Scubaboarders,

every now and then I am considering adding a proper underwater camera to my GP7 but I am always struggling between hazzle, size and money:

I am doing videography with my Gopro/Drone and I am extremely happy with it. I got the backscatter flip with the macro lense that does ok.

On land, I am a descent photographer with a good Sony A6300 portfolio. In the past, I owned an RX100 for which I got the Sony underwater hosing and a cheap wide angle lens. The outcome was a disaster and I spent a lot of time tinkering with the camera vs. enjoying the dives. Thus, I sold the whole set about a year ago.

Nevertheless, seeing a friends underwater shots with a TG-5, made me think about a second try.

I would want a camera set that is easy to use, flexible without having to change wet lenses under water (macro & wide angle) and small. Pictures should be nice and in a quality that I can put at the wall at >1x1 meter. I would be willing to spend max 1500USD.


Option 1: Using my Sony A6300 with my Sigma 30f28 ,getting the old Meikon/Seafrogs housing, a cheap wet wide angle and maybe a strobe

Option 2: Using my Sony A6300, getting the new Salted Line from Meikon with the 6" dome having a bit flexibility to use other lenses (I do not have a macro lens yet) and maybe a strobe

On both options I have to admit I am a bit reluctant of taking my good camera under water :-S

Option 3: Get an Olympus TG6 with the Olympus housing and the backscatter M52 wide angle air and mini strobe

Any thoughts from the Pros what would best fit my needs? I not really knowledgeable in the whole topic...


Thanks

 

[Barmaglot]

I would want a camera set that is easy to use, flexible without having to change wet lenses under water (macro & wide angle) and small. Pictures should be nice and in a quality that I can put at the wall at >1x1 meter. I would be willing to spend max 1500USD.

You're looking for a unicorn. Printing >1x1 meter needs a large, high-resolution sensor, good lenses and lots of light - at a bare minimum, you'll need to use an APS-C camera like your A6300 with a good pair of strobes - one won't cut it, and neither will a pair of small strobes like Inon S-2000. Full frame (A7R III) would be preferable. It won't fit into $1500, and it won't be flexible - you'll need to pick macro or wide-angle before you dive. You can do a flexible setup with 16-50mm, WWL-1 and CMC-1/CMC-2, but it will require changing lenses underwater - a lens that can go between wide-angle (>100 degrees AoV) and macro (1:1 magnification, or close to that) simply does not exist. No setup capable of producing poster prints will be small or easy to use.

 

[Tripophobia]

Mh, that's what's I thought...

Just a side note, as I am living in China I have good access to all kind of used cameras at descent prices, so one of those Canon G15 could also be an option...

 

[Barmaglot]

I have serious doubts that a G15 will produce decent-looking wall-sized prints. Facebook/instagram - sure, small prints (A3, maybe A4) - no problem, but wall-sized posters? That takes a serious camera and equally serious glass. For the reference, I use a Sony A6300 and SeaFrogs Salted Line housing, with the following lens/port combinations:

• Fisheye - 7Artisans 7.5mm f/2.8 fisheye + 4" dome port
• Wide-angle - Sony 10-18mm f/4 + 8" dome port
• Mixed size shots, not sure what to expect - Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 + 8" dome port
• Fluorescence - Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 + basic flat port + Nightsea barrier filter
• Macro - Sony 90mm f/2.8 G + long macro port
• Supermacro - Sony 90mm f/2.8 G + long macro port + Weefine +13 diopter

For lights, I use a pair of SeaFrogs ST-100 Pro strobes, an Archon D15VP focus light, and for fluorescence spotting, an Archon D36V video light (used to have a pair of those, but one is now on the bottom of Panagsama Beach, Moalboal). All in all, this setup has cost me a lot more than $1500, and it's neither easy to use nor simple to pack.

 

[Interceptor121]

1 meter is something you print with professional cameras.
Typically you look at 300 dpi so 1 meter is 39 inches 90 megapixels ideally but there are no cameras there
So 150 will have to do and you are looking at Nikon D850 or Sone A7RIV or Canon EOSDR basically 45 Mp and more
The Sony you have can print decent A3 42x27 cm

 

[Tripophobia]

to clarify on the wall prints, I am talking gallery bonds of which I have a few in my apartment and I look at them from a >2m distance. Thus, I am more looking at 100dpi

 

[Barmaglot]

At 100dpi, a 6000x4000 image produced by an A6300 (assuming you don't do any cropping) will be 1.5x1m, but there is no way to make a rig around an A6300 that will be easy to use, compact, flexible and cheap. You can put it in a basic housing and keep it small and cheap, but the quality won't be something you'd want to put on a wall. You can get a Nauticam housing with a compact dome and flip-up diopter, and it will be somewhat flexible, but it won't be cheap - and as soon as you put a pair of strobes on it, it won't be small either. You can go whole-hog for image quality with dedicated ports and lenses, but that will cost a lot and you'll lose flexibility.

 

[Tripophobia]

flexibility & size is more important to me --> looks like there is no way around TG-6...

What strobe would you recommend? The backscatter strobe looks nice, but does it have TTL?

Am I correct that if a strobe does not have TTL, I have to do it somehow trial and error or how does it work. I understand that w/o TTL, the camera cannot control (and neither know) intensity of the flash and thus cannot set right shutter and ISO (assuming I set apenture)

Moreover, how about that M52 air lense, can I really keep it on and get same quality macro shots?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Barmaglot]

flexibility & size is more important to me --> looks like there is no way around TG-6...

The terms "1/2.3" sensor" and "wall print" don't really go together.

What strobe would you recommend? The backscatter strobe looks nice, but does it have TTL?

Backscatter MF-1 does not have TTL, and it is far too weak for wide-angle photos - it is only useful for macro. If you want wide-angle, you will need a pair of Sea & Sea YS-01s at the very least, and preferably YS-D2Js, Inon Z-330s, or Retras. Possibly used Z-240s or YS-D1s.

Am I correct that if a strobe does not have TTL, I have to do it somehow trial and error or how does it work. I understand that w/o TTL, the camera cannot control (and neither know) intensity of the flash and thus cannot set right shutter and ISO (assuming I set apenture)

In general, when shooting with manual flash, you want to have the camera in full manual mode. TG series doesn't actually have a manual mode, but there are workarounds. Shutter speed doesn't affect your flash exposure, but aperture and ISO settings do.

Moreover, how about that M52 air lense, can I really keep it on and get same quality macro shots?

Maybe for larger subjects (5-8cm), but for tiny stuff you'll need to take it off.

 

[Chris Ross]

Manual flash is not as difficult as it sounds if you are at the same distance and aperture the flash exposure remains the same. The TG cameras only have two apertures f2/2.8 wide and f4.9/6.3 at the tele end. f8/18 are achieved with ND filters. So with a TG camera set it at f2.8 and leave it there. Then if you stay at about the same distance the flash exposure is set. Fairly east with macro as you are working in close and the relative distance does not change much. Wide angle similarly, you are a bit further out and need a stop or two more light. SO you find a setting for wide and another for macro and work around that.

The Backscatter strobe seems good for macro - wide it has limited coverage maybe just enough for a TG camera. The air lens just gets you back to the file dof view of a 25mm lens which is not very wide. You could look into the more expensive wide angle option if you wanted to do more expamsive stuff - but the TG really only shines as a macro camera. Unfortunately there is no good point and shoot solution underwater - too many variables to consider. What works well on land generally does not translate well underwater. TTL for example, some cameras do OK, most do not and turn the flash down too much