Well done.. I am glad you decided to post this information... Thank you for giving us the opportunity to learn! 
Pneumothorax in Palm Beach
- Thread starter ScubaDeb1159
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I have been thinking about your story. I think I understand your reluctance to give up diving. It seems to me you made it clear that you did not like the change of site. You tried to help where you could. When you had a problem you were smart enough not to dive and make it worse. All those are good decisions IMHO
The issue now is whether you choose to dive against Medical advice. I am a firm believer in allowing adults to consider all the options and make an informed choice. I won't encourage you to dive against medical advice but respect your right to make an informed choice if you are prepared to accept the consequences.
What I would suggest is that you give consideration to the impact that choice may have on others. With that in mind I think you should be honest with people that you dive with. That means Dive operators whose business may be negativly impacted in the even of an "incident" as well as dive buddies. They can then make their own informed decision about diving with you. Some people could have problems coping with the outcomes if things go wrong.. some people may not
It is also improtant that you talk to your loved ones honestly. They need to understand as well. They need to know that this is your informed decision and that others should not be held accountable in the event of something happening to you.
IMHO If you continue to monitor your condition, stay informed and chose to dive(which is not to say I think that is the action you should take).. and you find someone who is willing to dive with you knowing the situation then we are talking about adults making informed decisions for themselves. My advice would be to keep looking within the Medical System, keep asking your questions, keep looking for an acceptable medical solution. It may not be available now.. but who knows what medical science will be able to do in the future!
I really hope you can find a safe solution to your dilemma. Once again.. thank you for posting your story. It makes me think.. what would it take to make me stop diving
? I don't know the answer to that question yet.. but you have made me thing outside the box.. think of the impact my decision would make on others.
There are others who have made decisions about how far they are prepared to "push the envelop" *Ag comes to mind. Her family has suffered and others in the Cave diving community have suffered and some are worried about the impact her death has on accessibility to caves, Cave training and regulations. All these are issues to consider.. but ultimately the decision is the diver's
The issue now is whether you choose to dive against Medical advice. I am a firm believer in allowing adults to consider all the options and make an informed choice. I won't encourage you to dive against medical advice but respect your right to make an informed choice if you are prepared to accept the consequences.
What I would suggest is that you give consideration to the impact that choice may have on others. With that in mind I think you should be honest with people that you dive with. That means Dive operators whose business may be negativly impacted in the even of an "incident" as well as dive buddies. They can then make their own informed decision about diving with you. Some people could have problems coping with the outcomes if things go wrong.. some people may not
It is also improtant that you talk to your loved ones honestly. They need to understand as well. They need to know that this is your informed decision and that others should not be held accountable in the event of something happening to you.IMHO If you continue to monitor your condition, stay informed and chose to dive(which is not to say I think that is the action you should take).. and you find someone who is willing to dive with you knowing the situation then we are talking about adults making informed decisions for themselves. My advice would be to keep looking within the Medical System, keep asking your questions, keep looking for an acceptable medical solution. It may not be available now.. but who knows what medical science will be able to do in the future!
I really hope you can find a safe solution to your dilemma. Once again.. thank you for posting your story. It makes me think.. what would it take to make me stop diving
? I don't know the answer to that question yet.. but you have made me thing outside the box.. think of the impact my decision would make on others. There are others who have made decisions about how far they are prepared to "push the envelop" *Ag comes to mind. Her family has suffered and others in the Cave diving community have suffered and some are worried about the impact her death has on accessibility to caves, Cave training and regulations. All these are issues to consider.. but ultimately the decision is the diver's
OP
ScubaDeb1159
Registered
I do appreciate everyones honest opinions, I really do. I know all this to be true, I've read everything I can find on pneumos. Also, this is why I wanted so bad to talk about it...
I'm not kidding when I say I've been to 4 Dr's and talked to more than that. I've spent many hours researching this topic!
I used to be some what of a risk taker back in my younger days, my first dive lesson "18 yrs old" my friends said to me, were going down in this cave so whatever you do "don't stir the silt & don't forget to breath"...
I'm all grown up now, I'm not the risk taker that I once was. I have children & grand children that are my life.
And yes I've talked to my family about what could happen underwater, or even driving down the road and what they should do if and when that day comes...
I'm not saying I want to go deep sea diving, I know that those days are over!! I'm just saying, I want to get wet, play, and I don't care if it's only 10ft. I went so long w/out diving when I was married that I would've put my head in a mudd hole just to feel the freedom... Is 10, 15, 20ft okay in the springs????
Find another hobby? What? The Dr's say not to hike or fly planes, the two things other than diving that I would want to do...
I'm open for ideas!
I'm going down to Ginnie Springs w/seven of my close friends end of the month, I had told them that I wouldn't do the galaxy dive because I didn't want to take a chance of getting my reg knocked out and that was before I made my first post... So, too me that is being carefull, and I won't be going in the cavern at all... How deep is the Ballroom anyway? lol, just kidding!!
I'm not kidding when I say I've been to 4 Dr's and talked to more than that. I've spent many hours researching this topic!
I used to be some what of a risk taker back in my younger days, my first dive lesson "18 yrs old" my friends said to me, were going down in this cave so whatever you do "don't stir the silt & don't forget to breath"...
I'm all grown up now, I'm not the risk taker that I once was. I have children & grand children that are my life.
And yes I've talked to my family about what could happen underwater, or even driving down the road and what they should do if and when that day comes...
I'm not saying I want to go deep sea diving, I know that those days are over!! I'm just saying, I want to get wet, play, and I don't care if it's only 10ft. I went so long w/out diving when I was married that I would've put my head in a mudd hole just to feel the freedom... Is 10, 15, 20ft okay in the springs????
Find another hobby? What? The Dr's say not to hike or fly planes, the two things other than diving that I would want to do...
I'm open for ideas!
I'm going down to Ginnie Springs w/seven of my close friends end of the month, I had told them that I wouldn't do the galaxy dive because I didn't want to take a chance of getting my reg knocked out and that was before I made my first post... So, too me that is being carefull, and I won't be going in the cavern at all... How deep is the Ballroom anyway? lol, just kidding!!
Deb,
I'm sorry to hear about your accident. I concur 100% with TSandM, BubbleTrubble and the other posters. Not only do you have blebs, you now have a history of pneumothorax related to those blebs. This could easily have been a catastrophic accident and should serve as a wake-up call for you. The physician in Tennessee who told you you could dive and to "just watch your ascents" is incorrect. There is no safe depth for you to dive to. I would strongly advise you not to dive any more. Again, I'm really sorry.
Best regards,
DDM
I'm sorry to hear about your accident. I concur 100% with TSandM, BubbleTrubble and the other posters. Not only do you have blebs, you now have a history of pneumothorax related to those blebs. This could easily have been a catastrophic accident and should serve as a wake-up call for you. The physician in Tennessee who told you you could dive and to "just watch your ascents" is incorrect. There is no safe depth for you to dive to. I would strongly advise you not to dive any more. Again, I'm really sorry.
Best regards,
DDM
OP
ScubaDeb1159
Registered
I have one bleb, does that count? What about snorkeling? Looks like I may be trading all my gear for a new car or something.
I have to fly to DC next week, is that ok or am I taking another chance?
Thanks for all the info!!
Deb
I have to fly to DC next week, is that ok or am I taking another chance?
Thanks for all the info!!
Deb
having dealt with the worst case scenario of a diving fatality while I was captain and my girlfriend was DM, I can say PLEASE do not push your luck with this. I am certainly not a Dr or even have the tiniest bit of medical experience, but based on Lynn and Duke medicine's responses, you are a very significant risk here. even though you may think the risk is worth it to yourself PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not be selfish, and think of those around you. the impact of a fatality to everyone involved is significant. I still have nightmares, and know I will never stop asking myself "what if", even knowing there is absolutely nothing anyone could have done. the victim suffered from cardiac arrest on the surface and died in my girlfriend's arms while she was towing him to the boat. this is something that has seriously effected her emotionally, and she has refused to work on several occasions when there were elderly people on board. you also have to think of the other divers around you, especially newer ones, and how an experience like this will effect their view on diving. "If tragedy can strike an experienced diver, what are my chances?", I know this is a question that some of the students on board had to deal with the day of our incident. luckily the victim's wife sat down with them later and reassured them that it was just his time and he went out doing what he loved and not to be discouraged or afraid. but still, it will be something that is in the back of their mind every time they get in the water.
From my perspective, I have been able to look at our incident with a positive light. I can look back at the way my crew and I responded to the worst case scenario, and know we handled it the best anybody could. I take a lot of pride in that, and can reassure myself that next time the outcome might be different. however, I still wish I never had to experience it in the first place.
please think about this from the perspective of those around you, what if the crew that day doesn't respond appropriately? even though there might not be anything they could have done, there still can be significant impacts on their future, both emotionally and financially.
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From my perspective, I have been able to look at our incident with a positive light. I can look back at the way my crew and I responded to the worst case scenario, and know we handled it the best anybody could. I take a lot of pride in that, and can reassure myself that next time the outcome might be different. however, I still wish I never had to experience it in the first place.
please think about this from the perspective of those around you, what if the crew that day doesn't respond appropriately? even though there might not be anything they could have done, there still can be significant impacts on their future, both emotionally and financially.
---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?gquaku
Here is the problem . . . you have structurally abnormal lungs (seeing one bleb means there is one big enough to see; it does not mean all the of rest of the lung tissue is normal). You have already had a probably spontaneous pneumothorax, in that you really didn't have significant enough trauma that it would have caused a pneumo in someone with normal lungs. That gives you somewhere in the range of a 40% likelihood of recurrence.
In someone with healthy lungs and heart, a simple pneumothorax is an annoyance. The lung collapses, but the other one can do the job, and you suffer through the discomfort of a chest tube until the lung reinflates and seals. Expensive and uncomfortable, but not a major health hazard.
However, if that simple pneumothorax occurs at 33 feet and the lung collapses, then as you ascend, the air in that side of your chest will double in volume, or try to. What happens in that case is that the structures in the center of your chest, including your heart and the large veins that come to it, get shoved to one side and compressed. This can seriously interfere with the return of blood to the heart. This is called a "tension pneumothorax" and can be rapidly lethal. Although it can be successfully treated, it requires that someone on the boat know your history, know what is likely the cause of your cardiovascular collapse (read that as severe shock, possibly cardiac arrest), and take rapid and definitive (and effective!) steps to relieve the pressure.
When you really think it through, you'll realize that even from 15 feet, the air is going to increase by half again in volume -- that's still enough to be quite lethal.
There is nothing you can do to be more careful or prevent this from happening. You carry the risk with you everywhere you go, and no matter what you do. Scuba actually presents some increased risk, as even momentary breath-holding on ascent might blow a weak area in the lung (which we know you have).
All diving is a risk assessment. You are the only person who can decide whether the risk is worth it, but as has already been mentioned, you need to consider not only yourself, but your family, your dive buddy, and the crew of the boat you dive from, all of whom will be impacted by the decisions you make.
I love diving and cannot imagine a life without it, but if I had a spontaneous pneumo and an abnormal CT, I would quit.
In someone with healthy lungs and heart, a simple pneumothorax is an annoyance. The lung collapses, but the other one can do the job, and you suffer through the discomfort of a chest tube until the lung reinflates and seals. Expensive and uncomfortable, but not a major health hazard.
However, if that simple pneumothorax occurs at 33 feet and the lung collapses, then as you ascend, the air in that side of your chest will double in volume, or try to. What happens in that case is that the structures in the center of your chest, including your heart and the large veins that come to it, get shoved to one side and compressed. This can seriously interfere with the return of blood to the heart. This is called a "tension pneumothorax" and can be rapidly lethal. Although it can be successfully treated, it requires that someone on the boat know your history, know what is likely the cause of your cardiovascular collapse (read that as severe shock, possibly cardiac arrest), and take rapid and definitive (and effective!) steps to relieve the pressure.
When you really think it through, you'll realize that even from 15 feet, the air is going to increase by half again in volume -- that's still enough to be quite lethal.
There is nothing you can do to be more careful or prevent this from happening. You carry the risk with you everywhere you go, and no matter what you do. Scuba actually presents some increased risk, as even momentary breath-holding on ascent might blow a weak area in the lung (which we know you have).
All diving is a risk assessment. You are the only person who can decide whether the risk is worth it, but as has already been mentioned, you need to consider not only yourself, but your family, your dive buddy, and the crew of the boat you dive from, all of whom will be impacted by the decisions you make.
I love diving and cannot imagine a life without it, but if I had a spontaneous pneumo and an abnormal CT, I would quit.
I am not a doctor, but I do have some experience with what you are going through emotionally, and I have experience with the people who have responded so far. I hope you will find what follows helpful.
Not long ago I had a medical incident, and the diagnosis gave me two choices: 1) continue as before and give up diving altogether or 2) accept a medical solution that would limit me to basic, shallow water diving. I was devastated, so I know how you feel. You absolutely do not want to accept such a life altering situation and desperately want something different to be true.
I checked around and found a third option. Someone told me that my condition could have been caused by the very rare combination of factors in my situation, including a medication I was taking. I did some research and found that this was indeed a likely scenario. I was thus able to follow a third path: discontinue that medication and resume normal diving activity.
What I just said is important because the suggestion for that solution, which had not occurred to my own doctor, came to me via one of the people who responded to you on this thread. The people who have told you that your situation is very dangerous are by no means alarmists. They are dedicated divers as well as physicians. If they had thoughts about ways that you should continue to dive, you would have heard about them.
I urge you to take their advice very seriously, as much as you wish you had heard something different.
Not long ago I had a medical incident, and the diagnosis gave me two choices: 1) continue as before and give up diving altogether or 2) accept a medical solution that would limit me to basic, shallow water diving. I was devastated, so I know how you feel. You absolutely do not want to accept such a life altering situation and desperately want something different to be true.
I checked around and found a third option. Someone told me that my condition could have been caused by the very rare combination of factors in my situation, including a medication I was taking. I did some research and found that this was indeed a likely scenario. I was thus able to follow a third path: discontinue that medication and resume normal diving activity.
What I just said is important because the suggestion for that solution, which had not occurred to my own doctor, came to me via one of the people who responded to you on this thread. The people who have told you that your situation is very dangerous are by no means alarmists. They are dedicated divers as well as physicians. If they had thoughts about ways that you should continue to dive, you would have heard about them.
I urge you to take their advice very seriously, as much as you wish you had heard something different.
The biggest pressure changes occur at the shallowest depths. From the surface to 10 fsw, the pressure increases by 30%. That also means if you have a spontaneous pneumothorax at 10 fsw and ascend the air will expand by 30% causing a significant tension pneumothorax, which Lynne has already pointed out can be lethal. The safest depths would be the deepest as there are much smaller pressure changes associated with depth changes, but you can't get to those depths without going through the shallow depths. So there is no safe depth for your condition. I know it sucks. I'd be torn, but also like Lynne I would quit.
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