Plura, Norway: Body recovery operation started

[Storker]

Video interview with Sami Paakkarinen and an unidentified member of the team (there's a 30-second commercial in Norwegan in the beginning that you can't skip, but the interview is in English)

Does anyone know who the other interviewee was? From his reaction to the question he was asked, I started wondering if he could be one of the three survivors from Februay?

---------- Post added March 29th, 2014 at 01:27 PM ----------

Seems to be an indication that police "foot dragging" was getting to the point where civilians felt that they needed to take things into their own hands.

I'm not familiar with this cave system but if authorities don't take the needs of the families seriously then it doesn't surprise me at all that they are cut out of the loop.

I think you're rather unreasonable and even quite unfair in your assessment.

The official recovery action was based on the action to recover Ståle Tveitane's body in 2006, with the same divers they used then. AFAIcan see, there were two major differences between the official operation and the Finnish operation:

1: An official operation must have a more restrictive approach regarding diver safety than private individuals can. If you want to engage in an activity I consider excessively risky, that's your prerogative, but if I'm your boss and responsible for your safety, there's no way I'll allow you to do that while I'm responsible for you.
2: As Paakkarinen points out, although the British divers had experience from the Plura cave, they had never before been down where the bodies were located. The Finnish divers had been in that part of the cave and knew it better.

Frankly, I just can't see any "police foot dragging" going on here.

 

[Imla]

Actually, the official attempt to recover the bodies were given extremely wide excemptions from local HMS laws. This dive however was far beyond even those exceptions. There is actually a very strong "code of ethics" in Norway in regards to bringing the dead "home", and rescue/recovery attempts are normally given quite the leighway to get the dead back to their families. However, there is a significant difference between risk management in an offical operation and one performed by civilians. A certain risk will be allowed, and exceptions to rules and regulations were given, but in this case the risks were too great for an offical recovery.

 

[vplehto]

Does anyone know who the other interviewee was? From his reaction to the question he was asked, I started wondering if he could be one of the three survivors from Februay?

Yes I know the other one also, but as its not public I think he wants and shall be anonymous. I'm not sure but I think he was not from there at February.

 

[urts]

Yes I know the other one also, but as its not public I think he wants and shall be anonymous. I'm not sure but I think he was not from there at February.

errr hmmm, actually his name is given public here:
http://www.tv2.no/2014/03/28/nyheter/grotte-ulykken/innenriks/5453417#

 

[henrik242]

Plura is open for diving again: http://mobil.ranablad.no/nyheter/article7265469.ece

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[vplehto]

errr hmmm, actually his name is given public here:
? Å få de døde hjem var det viktigste for familiene i Finland - TV2.no#

Oh yes, it seems to be, at least I missed it, or maybe they edited it afterwards.

 

[Tigerman]

This weekend, Norwegian newspaper VG has a lengthy article about the fatalities and the recovery of the two finnish divers.
Theres some pretty detailed information there and a disturbingly detailed description of what exactly happened to the first fatality, but there seem to be quite a lot of uncertainty with regards to what happened to the second.

Amongst the information is details about equipment and full names of several of the divers who where involved in both the accident and the recoveries.
Unfortunately the online version is behind a paywall, but it can be found at «Man forlater ikke en kompis, selv om han er død» - VG+[D%C3%B8dsdykket+etter+kompisen]

 

[Redshift]

Theres some pretty detailed information there and a disturbingly detailed description of what exactly happened to the first fatality, but there seem to be quite a lot of uncertainty with regards to what happened to the second.

There was an interview on Finnish TV with one of the divers who was there when the accident happened and one who dived to recover the bodies. The former led us to believe that the second fatality happened due to emotional distress after the diver saw the other dead friend, which led to increased breathing rate which at that depth on a rebreather was fatal.

 

[Tigerman]

There was an interview on Finnish TV with one of the divers who was there when the accident happened and one who dived to recover the bodies. The former led us to believe that the second fatality happened due to emotional distress after the diver saw the other dead friend, which led to increased breathing rate which at that depth on a rebreather was fatal.

A quick recap of what was said in the article I linked thats unfortunately behind a paywall was that Patrik Grönqvist (who is a firefighter and ambulance driver in Helsingfors) and Jari Houtarinen dived first and Jari got stuck - couldnt get loose despite several bits of gear being removed and Patrik watched him die after several swiches between gas sources and obvious distress.
On his way up to the exit point Patrik is obviously distresed and thoughts like "theire gonna find the body and everyones gonna freak out of die" was running through his mind.
While he did deco Vesa Rantanen from the 2nd dive team catch up with him, after having doffed the gear and pushed the gear through the deceased and they ascend together. Vesa is the diver that got relatively mild DCS symptoms.
The last two divers dont come up on the side they where supposed to exit as they have not made it past the deceased diver and making their way back to the accomidation they have a feeling that the last two divers is also deceased.
Some time (from the article it sounds like hours) later Kai Känkänen makes his way back to the accomodations - himself having though just as Patrik that everyone else is dead and tell them that Jari Uusimäki saw the body of Jari Houtarinen and something happend after seeing the body, Kai tried to help to no avail and Jari Uusimäki also succumbed. Theres no details as to that event in the article, just the assumtions that something happened and/or he might have gotten stressed out and/or paniced from seeing the body and somehow died as a result from that by way of co poisoning or such. No autopsy results has been included in the article (if they are even ready/public).
Kai also had a scooter die on the way back to the entrance point - a route that he was the only survivor to og back to.

As to the rescue effort Patrik Grönqvist was part of the recovery team together with an instructor named Sami Paakarinen. According to the article there was a total of 17 finns and 10 norwegians involved in the recoveries which took a total of 101 hours of diving.
Sami Paakarinen also says he understand full well, and dont blame the official rescue teams decision to abort as they have to follow much stricter guidelines than a "civilian" team of voulenteers and the fact that this is an extreme dive.

Ok, bit less quick recap than intended, but there you go..

DISCLAIMER: The recap IS from a newspaper article, so Its only as accurate as the source. All the names Ive used is published in the newspaper article and as such are officially released to the public.
(also I hate this computer/browser as it has some kinda crap spellchecker that I cant find to disable)

 

[Storker]

I read the full article on paper last evening, and it was surprisingly well-written and free from sensationalism and errors for a tabloid article. Except for the fact that the journalist consequently wrote "oxygen" instead of diving gas...