Plura, Norway: Body recovery operation started

[Rabies Rabbe]

As for D1 who squeezed past his dead friend D2, going back would've been a much more difficult route. The one that took D5 (the one who survived and had a DPV malfunction) after D4's OC malfunction a total of 11 hours to complete the dive. That's why D2 squeezed through. As for D3, I think he was thinking the same as D1 and also thinking his friend went through and he would follow him and make the easier descent.

 

[gianaameri]

Perhaps you could start your own thread on that?

I would like it if this one would stay open, which seems unlikely if you continue to post in it.

No, I won't start my own thread and your personal attack is unwelcome.

I looked at the pictures of the 2006 Plura recovery (prior fatality to the current one) and I can see divers using rebreathers and divers using backmount SCUBA tanks.

I think the latter were the support divers and the rebreather divers were the lead recovery divers.

However, the conditions of the current aborted recovery are different as I understand it from the prior 2006 recovery.

Currently the bodies are deeper and further in and behind restrictions (whichever direction you approach them) and the water is colder (2C) - making the recovery more difficult because

1. The diving conditions are beyond the safe limits of rebreathers and it would take a very large deployment of gas to carry the recovery out entirely on OC.
2. It would be extenuating to move dead divers that deep and for that long and then through a restriction raising WOB certainly beyond the safe limits of rebreathers and possibly beyond the safe limits of OC.
3. Any dead diver stuck in a restriction in his final moments is likely to have wedged himself inextricably in the restriction and to get him out would require to move stones, rocks, debris, loose material... which would require high WOB and related risk of CO2 retention PLUS the risk of the rescue diver also getting stuck in the restriction.

If the above is off topic or too hard for you to live with in a public forum, report the post and the moderators can delete it (closing the topic altogether would seem to me a bit strange...).

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk

 

[vincent54]

I think gianaameri is right. He does know what he is talking about. Good luck to those involved.

 

[Storker]

I have no particular urge to be a hobby moderator, but on some of the other Internet discussion forums I've been visiting, the OP ("thread owner") has had some rights as to the opinion on what topics are appropriate in a discussion thread. I don't know if that's the case here on SB, but I'd like to repeat my request that we keep the rebreather issue out of this thread. If anyone has opinions on the use of a rebreather in conditions similar to the Plura cave system during wintertime or the technical issues of the use of rebreathers at extreme depths and cold temperatures, I'd appreciate if that issue was taken to another thread. If for no other reason, so at least out of respect for the two dead divers, for whom the reason of their death only can be subject to speculation and opinion at this time.

Thank you.

 

[MMM]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Bickering has been deleted. Please stay on topic and stop the bickering or at least take it to PM. Any further such behaviour may result in a loss of posting privileges. Marg, SB Senior Moderator

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[boulderjohn]

I have no particular urge to be a hobby moderator, but on some of the other Internet discussion forums I've been visiting, the OP ("thread owner") has had some rights as to the opinion on what topics are appropriate in a discussion thread. I don't know if that's the case here on SB, but I'd like to repeat my request that we keep the rebreather issue out of this thread.

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Although an OP does not technically have such a right, the right actually exists because a thread is supposed to stay on topic. When someone brings up tangential issues that threaten to hijack the thread, then moderation is in order. A few off topic posts that don't go anywhere are usually ignored because the problem is not worth the effort, but when a thread gets derailed to the point of going in a direction other than its original intent, we will normally step in. For example, Rick Murchison stepped in and removed posts about turning it into a grave site into a new thread. That process is, frankly, a lot of work and gets people ticked off needlessly before it happens. If you want to talk about something that is tangentially related to a topic but not quite on topic, please do everyone a favor and start your own thread in an appropriate forum. This thread is about what is happening in a specific situation. Whether or not it is advisable to dive with rebreathers at a certain temperature is an interesting topic, but it is only barely related to the topic and this forum. If you want to talk about that topic, please go to the rebreather forum and start a thread there, leaving this thread to its intended purpose.

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[TONY CHANEY]

The personnel that are setting up the recovery dive have been at the site before and have recovered bodies in the past. I truly believe that they know what they are doing to include doing nothing. There is really no sense in dying to recover a body. I will like to keep this thread open in order to see how the recover plays out in order to gain some professional knowledge in a worse case situation.

---------- Post added March 3rd, 2014 at 03:24 PM ----------

Perhaps you could start your own thread on that?

I would like it if this one would stay open, which seems unlikely if you continue to post in it.

I see nothing here that could be taken as an attack.

 

[gianaameri]

Does the water in this cave get warmer in the summer, anybody with local knowledge?

Timing a recovery when conditions are more benign and using a bigger team and adequate equipment might be easier than rush things now. If a window opens up later I hope they will try again and not give-up.

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[TONY CHANEY]

Very good question and I was thinking the same. The bodies sould be well preserved considering the lack of oxygen, light and the temp of the water. There might even be a high flow as the snow melts and might dislodge the stuck divers body. OTOH I see no reason not to go ahead and recover the diver's body that had equipment issues.

 

[gianaameri]

Very good question and I was thinking the same. The bodies sould be well preserved considering the lack of oxygen, light and the temp of the water. There might even be a high flow as the snow melts and might dislodge the stuck divers body. OTOH I see no reason not to go ahead and recover the diver's body that had equipment issues.

Rainwater (or melting snow) would replenish the dissolved O2 in the cave if there is flow.

There are little creatures who live in caves as well and I hear of them devouring a large fish in Mexico in two weeks.

...but cold helps to preserve bodies.

It would be interesting to have more data on the cave (biology, temps...).

I suspect if one of the bodies was reached on the first recovery attempt (I think at least one dive was made...), they would have recovered the dive computer (SOP).