Please tell me Who was at fault?
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First, this forum isn't about "assigning blame"...
That said, I would analyze the situation as follows:
Everyone screwed up when they made a plan that wasn't working and then continued to dive it. If two pairs are traveling to a site together while dragging the flag, then everyone should be together during the trip. You have to stay with the flag, and that means the flag can't go faster than the slowest diver. It also means the faster divers need to check themselves and stick with the group. Once that broke down, the flag dragger tried to do the right thing by not pulling away from the slowest divers, but his partner was apparently oblivious. Even so, the flag man was too late in making the adjustment if he had lost track of the other pair and ended up solo.
To go back to the beach, you either needed two flags or a clear understanding that the four of you needed to stay together in transit. Even on the reef, you couldn't split too far apart lest the protection of the flag be lost to one pair. You didn't mention the dive location or the boat traffic, but you really don't want boats driving over you in 12' of water.
As far as the buddy pairs go, it seems it should have been couples. If you can't trust your wife and her buddy to take care of each other, then you aren't being a good buddy for your partner. Even if you didn't physically create the separation with your buddy, you did it mentally when your focus was elsewhere. Even so, your buddy was more responsible for the separation than you were. If you slow down, your buddy should be watching, realize it, and come back looking for you if you were lost. You should have signaled your intent to slow and he should have waited with you.
What was discussed in the briefing? Did you cover the need to stay with the flag? Did you agree that you would surface and head for the flag after a few minutes of separation?
All in all, the group acted like a bunch of newly certified and inexperienced divers. You were all selfish at some level and you all failed to make the safety of your dive and partners the first priority. No one should feel good about that, and no member of the group is in a position to throw the first stone.
That said, I would analyze the situation as follows:
Everyone screwed up when they made a plan that wasn't working and then continued to dive it. If two pairs are traveling to a site together while dragging the flag, then everyone should be together during the trip. You have to stay with the flag, and that means the flag can't go faster than the slowest diver. It also means the faster divers need to check themselves and stick with the group. Once that broke down, the flag dragger tried to do the right thing by not pulling away from the slowest divers, but his partner was apparently oblivious. Even so, the flag man was too late in making the adjustment if he had lost track of the other pair and ended up solo.
To go back to the beach, you either needed two flags or a clear understanding that the four of you needed to stay together in transit. Even on the reef, you couldn't split too far apart lest the protection of the flag be lost to one pair. You didn't mention the dive location or the boat traffic, but you really don't want boats driving over you in 12' of water.
As far as the buddy pairs go, it seems it should have been couples. If you can't trust your wife and her buddy to take care of each other, then you aren't being a good buddy for your partner. Even if you didn't physically create the separation with your buddy, you did it mentally when your focus was elsewhere. Even so, your buddy was more responsible for the separation than you were. If you slow down, your buddy should be watching, realize it, and come back looking for you if you were lost. You should have signaled your intent to slow and he should have waited with you.
What was discussed in the briefing? Did you cover the need to stay with the flag? Did you agree that you would surface and head for the flag after a few minutes of separation?
All in all, the group acted like a bunch of newly certified and inexperienced divers. You were all selfish at some level and you all failed to make the safety of your dive and partners the first priority. No one should feel good about that, and no member of the group is in a position to throw the first stone.
Most of the issues have been discussed, but I will add that I have seen this happen before. If you have a highly protective spouse worried about his other half, then they should not be on separate buddy teams. The protective one will try to split his awareness between his buddy and his spouse, and won't do either job very well. This only works if the two buddy pairs go separate ways and are not visible to one another.
In clear, well-lit water, it can be difficult to signal an errant buddy. I know people use noisemaking devices for this, but if someone has a hood on, they aren't very effective. And they aren't very effective if someone isn't listening, either. If the flagman stopped even briefly to check on the divers behind, the faster buddy could easily have gotten out of reach and been difficult to catch or signal. On the other hand, the faster buddy SHOULD have realized, in 30 seconds or so, that he hadn't seen his companion, and turned to check.
Buddy awareness is EVERYBODY's job. If the plan was to stay together, the women should have signaled that the men were going too fast. The buddies should have been checking on one another. There should have been some method of signaling, or all involved should have committed to a certain degree of vigilance.
In clear, well-lit water, it can be difficult to signal an errant buddy. I know people use noisemaking devices for this, but if someone has a hood on, they aren't very effective. And they aren't very effective if someone isn't listening, either. If the flagman stopped even briefly to check on the divers behind, the faster buddy could easily have gotten out of reach and been difficult to catch or signal. On the other hand, the faster buddy SHOULD have realized, in 30 seconds or so, that he hadn't seen his companion, and turned to check.
Buddy awareness is EVERYBODY's job. If the plan was to stay together, the women should have signaled that the men were going too fast. The buddies should have been checking on one another. There should have been some method of signaling, or all involved should have committed to a certain degree of vigilance.
I'm not going to read all the comments on this one, so if someone else has said this...sorry.
The diver carrying the flag should not be leading the dive. You can't navigate and pull a flag through the water at the same time. So, in my opinion, one of the divers should have been the navigator --who is the team leader. Someone else should handle the flag.
If one person from each dive pair had one of those responsibilities (flag and navigation) then it would have been easier for the greater team to stick together.
In the scenario you mention, anyone not with the guy with the flag is lost. Every diver should have made it a point to stick with the flagman --if that was their plan. If you are pulling a flag along, you really can't be hearding everyone else along.
To answer your question, the three not with the flagman were all at fault.
Jeff
The diver carrying the flag should not be leading the dive. You can't navigate and pull a flag through the water at the same time. So, in my opinion, one of the divers should have been the navigator --who is the team leader. Someone else should handle the flag.
If one person from each dive pair had one of those responsibilities (flag and navigation) then it would have been easier for the greater team to stick together.
In the scenario you mention, anyone not with the guy with the flag is lost. Every diver should have made it a point to stick with the flagman --if that was their plan. If you are pulling a flag along, you really can't be hearding everyone else along.
To answer your question, the three not with the flagman were all at fault.
Jeff
Oceanpro4--I'm not at all sure that determining who specifically is at fault is a productive strategy for future dive harmony.
From a psychological perspective, when your SO disappears underwater it makes you so worried that you get angry at him/her later for making you worry needlessly when s/he turns up unharmed (as if you'd really want it the other way, but still). It's sort of circular, but like most emotional responses, logic doesn't dictate your gut reactions. You worry, everything turns out okay, and you want your SO to take responsibility for causing you mental anguish; from that point you need a "logical" reason to make him/her accept responsibility, and assigning "fault" is one way to try to do it. (Especially as you are supposed to be the "authority" in the family, given your pro status in scuba--your nick gives you away--and it goes both ways since she can "accuse" you of not taking care of her by going back to the beach and you can "accuse" her of not following your lead properly by lagging behind.) By the way, your wife must also have been worried sick when your buddy showed up to join them on the way back and you were nowhere to be seen. She would have been wanting you to take responsibility for causing her mental anguish as well!
The only constructive way to get out of your blame game discussion with your wife is to stop trying to assign fault and simply take measures to make sure it never happens again.
This was a preventable incident that you can all learn from. When you have performed a good debriefing after this problematic dive, you will have a solid foundation for recognizing that you have caused one another anguish, asking pardon for that, forgiving, and going on to become become better buddies and team members.
From a psychological perspective, when your SO disappears underwater it makes you so worried that you get angry at him/her later for making you worry needlessly when s/he turns up unharmed (as if you'd really want it the other way, but still). It's sort of circular, but like most emotional responses, logic doesn't dictate your gut reactions. You worry, everything turns out okay, and you want your SO to take responsibility for causing you mental anguish; from that point you need a "logical" reason to make him/her accept responsibility, and assigning "fault" is one way to try to do it. (Especially as you are supposed to be the "authority" in the family, given your pro status in scuba--your nick gives you away--and it goes both ways since she can "accuse" you of not taking care of her by going back to the beach and you can "accuse" her of not following your lead properly by lagging behind.) By the way, your wife must also have been worried sick when your buddy showed up to join them on the way back and you were nowhere to be seen. She would have been wanting you to take responsibility for causing her mental anguish as well!
The only constructive way to get out of your blame game discussion with your wife is to stop trying to assign fault and simply take measures to make sure it never happens again.
- Have an open, non-judgmental discussion that involves the four of you.
- State right out that it's not a question of who's to blame, but rather a question of how to learn from the experience.
- State only the facts as if it were a movie with 4 cameras--each one will have a different, but true, perspective. What happened in what order. Only facts, not conclusions based on the situation.
- What could each of you individually and all of you as a team do differently to prevent this sort of thing from happening again?
- What strategies would help you stop worrying so much about your wife?
- What strategies can you adopt to make sure nobody swims off ahead again?
- What "lost diver" procedures can you implement?
- How can you make sure that the slower swimmers don't lag behind?
This was a preventable incident that you can all learn from. When you have performed a good debriefing after this problematic dive, you will have a solid foundation for recognizing that you have caused one another anguish, asking pardon for that, forgiving, and going on to become become better buddies and team members.
Flagman did the best he could. I put the blame on Guy #2 and on the general plan. Two buddy teams means 2 dive flags to me.
OP
oceanpro4
Registered
Thank you to all who commented on this, i really dont mean to Pass the blame on anyone or to spotlight someone and tell them they were wrong,I agree that its not about who is wrong its about recognizing any issues and resolving them. i think most of you if not all of you had a positive answer on this, I think i should have buddied up with my wife and had a 2nd flag as an option for the other 2 diver to take, should have been more detailed with the dive plan and emergency procedures, sometimes you assume everyone knows the "lost buddy procedure" and in this case if everyone had follow this i wouldnt be writing this.
Im gonna take this and learn from it, thank you for taking the time.
Im gonna take this and learn from it, thank you for taking the time.
Trimixgrog
Registered
This is an easy one to respond to... All of you were at fault for not having a clear dive profile. Nobody discussed the "what if's" on this dive... On any dive, one must have a clear dive profile, and contigency plans... Then, after that, everybody needs to just dive the plan... Simple...
So it is "Plan the dive, dive the plan". If your group does a poor job on planning the dive, then this dive is slated for a cluster...
So, grow up, and stop arguing about it. Learn from your mistakes, and dive safely...
BTW... I'm an instructor...
So it is "Plan the dive, dive the plan". If your group does a poor job on planning the dive, then this dive is slated for a cluster...
So, grow up, and stop arguing about it. Learn from your mistakes, and dive safely...
BTW... I'm an instructor...
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