please respect restricted areas ...

[MXGratefulDiver]

Please stay out of the taxi lane !!!

I got a report last night that the DIR Tech 1 class was once again conducting training in the water taxi lane at Cove 2. Now, I'm going to admit that I wasn't there this time (as I have been in the past) ... but the report came from a diver who trained at that shop and was there at the time.

I really don't want to bash anyone ... but this is happening too often from a shop that touts it's students as the area's "elite divers". I have to believe that these folks know by now why the boundary cable exists, and how to use a compass to stay out of the restricted zone.

Perhaps they don't believe that we can (and will, if this continues) lose access to Cove 2 due to these incidents. I can assure you ... as someone who's spent time working with the folks who grant us that access ... that each and every time someone strays into the restricted zone they hear about it and document it.

Look ... just because the taxi isn't currently running doesn't mean we suddenly have access to that restricted zone. We don't. And there are people ... residents not the least among them ... who are looking for reasons to kick us out of that cove.

Please stay out of the restricted zone ... it's permanently off limits to diving. That's a simple enough concept that we shouldn't have difficulty understanding it.

And can someone from this board who's a Fifth D regular please try to impress upon their staff that by violating the restricted zone they're threatening access to this dive site for all divers? They obviously aren't listening to me ... :upset:

If they, or anyone else, has any questions about the rules, they're prominently posted on signs at several locations around the site.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[JeffG]

NWGratefulDiver once bubbled...
Please stay out of the taxi lane !!!

I got a report last night that the DIR Tech 1 class was once again conducting training in the water taxi lane at Cove 2. Now, I'm going to admit that I wasn't there this time (as I have been in the past) ... but the report came from a diver who trained at that shop and was there at the time.

I really don't want to bash anyone ... but this is happening too often from a shop that touts it's students as the area's "elite divers". I have to believe that these folks know by now why the boundary cable exists, and how to use a compass to stay out of the restricted zone.

Perhaps they don't believe that we can (and will, if this continues) lose access to Cove 2 due to these incidents. I can assure you ... as someone who's spent time working with the folks who grant us that access ... that each and every time someone strays into the restricted zone they hear about it and document it.

Look ... just because the taxi isn't currently running doesn't mean we suddenly have access to that restricted zone. We don't. And there are people ... residents not the least among them ... who are looking for reasons to kick us out of that cove.

Please stay out of the restricted zone ... it's permanently off limits to diving. That's a simple enough concept that we shouldn't have difficulty understanding it.

And can someone from this board who's a Fifth D regular please try to impress upon their staff that by violating the restricted zone they're threatening access to this dive site for all divers? They obviously aren't listening to me ... :upset:

If they, or anyone else, has any questions about the rules, they're prominently posted on signs at several locations around the site.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Why don't you contact 5th D yourself, instead of posting your Rant about something that you didn't see.

 

[Uncle Pug]

JeffG once bubbled...
Why don't you contact 5th D yourself, instead of posting your Rant about something that you didn't see.

1) Bob has spent a lot of time working on community relations in the area trying to keep this popular site open for all of us. He has worked on putting an under water hawser on the bottom demarking the out of bounds area, he has cleaned and maintained said line, he has installed UW floats and surface floats on the line as well as harvested fishing lures off of the line to give to fishermen on the pier in an effort to foster good will with them.

2) Bob is not DIR and his voice is evidently lost on those who are.

3) Bob is hoping that some of us who are DIR and are aquainted with the principles of the mentioned dive shop will speak up for all of the divers who will be locked out of that site if this continues.

4) Last but not least, this is the PNW Orca Bait forum where rants about things like this are not only welcome but germane.


Bob... I was there. The Tech 1 class was well outside of the out of bounds area making ascents near the I-beams. They were using marker buoys and posed no problem. I did see one diver (AG) swim out to the location on the surface and briefly crossed through a portion of the out of bounds area.

 

[JeffG]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

Bob... I was there. The Tech 1 class was well outside of the out of bounds area making ascents near the I-beams. They were using marker buoys and posed no problem. I did see one diver (AG) swim out to the location on the surface and briefly crossed through a portion of the out of bounds area.

I don't have a problem with rants, but

a) He was not there
b) Was wrong (He A$$ U ME 'd those evil men were being bad)

And instead of going to the source (ie 5th D) and ask, he posts a rant and trys to get someone else to do his dirty work.

Now if his voice is "being lost" because he is not DIR...well thats another issue altogether.

 

[kalvyn]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
Bob... I was there. The Tech 1 class was well outside of the out of bounds area making ascents near the I-beams. They were using marker buoys and posed no problem. I did see one diver (AG) swim out to the location on the surface and briefly crossed through a portion of the out of bounds area.

UP, on first read of your post I took "well outside of the out-of-bounds area" to mean that they were IN the out-of-bounds area. I see on re-reading that you meant they were well clear of the out-of-bounds area, whew. AG crossing briefly into "the zone", while not kosher, is a LOT less of a violation than an entire class popping up by the docks.

JeffG - while I personally live in Tacoma, WA and could care less if Seacrest was closed to divers (I've got better diving down here, quite frankly), it would be a HUGE blow to the Seattle and Metro area divers if the park was closed to diving. It's where just about every Seattle Metro shop (5thD included) does their class dives. It's a nice place to meet and dive with a new buddy. It's a nice place for us divers that live in the South end to "meet halfway" with someone that lives further up North (say, Uncle Pug, for example - hint hint).

The local condo owners around Seacrest, the fishermen there, the other people that want to use the park and can't park there in the Summer because of all the divers... they are all looking for ANY excuse to get diving banned there. Even something as slight as AG briefly crossing into "the zone" will be used against the diving community. Everyone needs to be vigilant when diving at Seacrest or no one will be diving there.

Jimmie

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

JeffG once bubbled...

I don't have a problem with rants, but

a) He was not there
b) Was wrong (He A$$ U ME 'd those evil men were being bad)

And instead of going to the source (ie 5th D) and ask, he posts a rant and trys to get someone else to do his dirty work.

Now if his voice is "being lost" because he is not DIR...well thats another issue altogether.

Jeff ... FYI, the last time this happened I spoke directly to the instructors involved, one of whom is prominent on this board. He was nice enough ... but the behavior continues. Mistakes happen ... but when they happen continually they're not mistakes, they're intentional violations.

Talk about ASS U ME'ing ... you're assuming I think these folks are evil. Not so ... in fact, I'm going to be diving with several of them at this very site about three hours from now. So let's dispense with your own assumptions, shall we?

This isn't about "evil men" ... it's about one thing ... access or lack of access to one of the area's most popular dive sites.

I wasn't there. I said so. On the other hand, I got this information from a reliable source ... one who also happens to be a DIR diver, so I don't think there's any "agenda" here other than the one involving access to this site. Furthermore, the Seattle Parks and Recreational Dept. got the same information I did ... you can bet they won't be calling Fifth D either. But this violation ... however slight ... will be documented and used at the next City Council meeting where the issue of access to scuba activities on this site is discussed. We nearly lost this site two years ago for far less reason.

As U.P. pointed out, I've spent a lot of time, effort, and my own expense maintaining this site and working with various officials and organizations to keep it open to the diving community ... as have three or four other divers. You don't know the politics involved, or the amount of effort that it takes to keep this site open ... so let's dispense with any assumptions you have on that as well. I've done dozens of dives on this site, and spent many hours topside working for the sole purpose of doing whatever it takes to make sure it's accessible to the diving community ... so I've earned the right to "rant", as you put it, when people do things that threaten to undo all the effort we've put into it.

The restricted area is clearly marked with surface buoys ... ones that we put on our own time and expense to make sure that divers could clearly know where the restricted area was, both above and below the surface. Andrew knows this area well ... I've no doubt he knew exactly that he was violating a restricted zone and chose to do so anyway.

To answer your question directly, I didn't waste my time calling Fifth D this time because they chose to ignore me last time ... as one of our prominent instructors told me "you're just a stroke, Bob ... and that's all you'll ever be to those people". Apparently, she's got a point.

Finally, as U.P. mentioned ... this is the PNW forum, and this is a PNW issue. If we lose this site, I think it's relevent that those who dive here know the reasons why.

I notice you live a couple thousand miles from here ... why should you care?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[JeffG]

NWGratefulDiver once bubbled...

<snip post due to size>
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob,

My response had nothing to do with the "Whys". Just the "Hows"

UP answered all the questions...

Look at what you did with your post:

1: You heard from someone else that some people were "breaking the rules"

2: Instead of confronting the offenders directly, you posted to the entire internet.

To me, this did not make any sense. It did not seem to be an efficient way of getting something done. (A very round about way of getting the message across to the people that needed to here.)

No Insult/Attack was intended.


But here's something to think about.

Why don't the people at 5th D will not listen to you?

Well...Here you just accused them of very anti-diver behaviour in a very public manner.

Just like when you posted that the DIRF class was a Halcyon marketing gimmick, and when you started talking about who was making money on the classes you got all the details wrong.

or then again maybe they are just A- wholes.

Jeff


Note: The "Evil People" text was just a tongue-n-cheek description of DIR divers (you are not very Pro DIR) so no assumptions were being made.

 

[dborden]

Is there any way we can block people like JeffG from the pacnw forum???

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

JeffG once bubbled...


Why don't the people at 5th D will not listen to you?

Well...Here you just accused them of very anti-diver behaviour in a very public manner.

Jeff, I reported something that happened ... it's been verified as fact. Andrew was inside a restricted area. He knows this cove, having taught in it for many years. He knows the area he was in is restricted. He also knows that there's a tension dynamic between divers, fishermen, residents, and water taxi advocates ... and divers are on the lowest rung of that dynamic. He had no reason to be in there, however "brief" that incursion may have been. Call it what you will ... those are the facts.

Just like when you posted that the DIRF class was a Halcyon marketing gimmick, and when you started talking about who was making money on the classes you got all the details wrong.

Wrong again bub ... I NEVER said any such thing. I said that DIR-F classes ... like all other scuba classes ... are in the business of selling gear. That, my friend, is a simple statement about the business model employed by every dive certification agency, including GUE. I never once said it was a marketing gimmick for Halcyon ... that was your ASSumption ... and an incorrect one at that.

or then again maybe they are just A- wholes.

Some yes, others no ... just like the rest of the world.

Note: The "Evil People" text was just a tongue-n-cheek description of DIR divers (you are not very Pro DIR) so no assumptions were being made.

I'm not very anti-DIR either. I dive with a lot of DIR folks ... did so just tonight, in fact. We respect each other. So stop trying to make this an agency issue.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

JeffG once bubbled...


My response had nothing to do with the "Whys". Just the "Hows"

Your response was ...

Why don't you contact 5th D yourself, instead of posting your Rant about something that you didn't see.

... so I don't see how you can say it had nothing to do with the "Whys".

I hope the question has been sufficiently answered at this point.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)