Planning to dive Hawaii in July!

[RickyF]

Last I checked, the suggestion is that a newly-minted OW diver not plan a dive below 60', not that AOW is prerequisite to ever diving past 60'. Some operators may insist on trying to sell her an AOW course, but AOW is neither technically necessary for diving wrecks in the 61'-130' range, nor necessarily indicative that she's capable of doing so.

That said, I agree that doing the AOW class first is probably easier because it tends to short-circuit any inquiry into whether you're qualified for a given dive you want to do. It shouldn't be necessary to Put Another Dollar In if you're already experienced in diving to deeper recreational depths, and it shouldn't be automagically sufficient for all bigger rec dives that you're a mighty mighty AOW, but that seems to be the way it is.

True, but the repercussions to the dive shop that knowingly takes a diver past the limits of their certification and something happens opens them up for a large liability!

 

[Dr. Lecter]

True, but the repercussions to the dive shop that knowingly takes a diver past the limits of their certification and something happens opens them up for a large liability!

I guess I wasn't clear: you're parroting a common mistake about the "limits" of OW certification.

 

[DukeAMO]

IMHO, what you would need to dive the outside of the deeper wrecks is: good buoyancy control (no bumping into or holding onto the wreck, ouch!), experience with some deep dives (diving to 100 feet should not scare you), the ability to monitor your computer's NDL and your own gas supply to stick to the dive plan, and a reasonable comfort level with diving from a boat in the ocean (waves, current, getting geared up and on/off the boat). If that's scary, you'd enjoy the shallower dives more.

If you don't have AOW, I imagine the dive charters would want more details on your diving experience. I would think that constantly proving that you're ready for more "advanced" dives would get old, if you never got an AOW certification.

AOW == Beginner Level 2.

Incidentally, some deep dives are not really advanced. Take, for example, the Manta Ray 2-tank dives in Kona (one before sunset, one after dark). We went to 85ft for a few minutes, but it was on a calm sand flat to look at the garden eels, and then we went back up above 50ft for the rest of the dive. Easy peasey. That would be a good deep diving "starter dive". Or, if you really don't want to go below 60 feet, I'm sure they can put you in a beginner dive group that just skips the visit to the garden eels.

 

[scuberd]

AOW == Beginner Level 2.

I always thought it should be renamed. Is someone fresh out of the AOW class with 10 dives under their belt truly 'advanced'?

That said, AOW is one of my favorite classes to teach and a valuable one for newer divers

 

[Dr. Lecter]

I always thought it should be renamed. Is someone fresh out of the AOW class with 10 dives under their belt truly 'advanced'?

That said, AOW is one of my favorite classes to teach and a valuable one for newer divers

Perhaps it could be called "Things We Neglected To Cover Whilst You Were All Kneeling In a Circle On a Platform In a Quarry"

 

[RickyF]

I guess I wasn't clear: you're parroting a common mistake about the "limits" of OW certification.

No, you were clear enough. We both know that freshly minted OW & AOW classes do not give you enough dives or experience for a lot of dives on the island. It's all about experience in different types of diving enviornments, which is why I hate insta-buddies. But to take your premise a step further, 130' is only a suggestion for recreational dives? It all boils down to where the dive operation draws the line.

 

[Michael SeaWolf]

My wife and I will also be there July 2 to 9th, staying and shore diving off Kaanapali, and probably renting a bareboat to head out to Molokini ourselves on one day (anyone interested in sharing the boat with us?) - we're trying to determine the best shore dives along the west side from Black Rock south... any recomendations?

 

[Dr. Lecter]

No, you were clear enough. We both know that freshly minted OW & AOW classes do not give you enough dives or experience for a lot of dives on the island. It's all about experience in different types of diving enviornments, which is why I hate insta-buddies. But to take your premise a step further, 130' is only a suggestion for recreational dives? It all boils down to where the dive operation draws the line.

Unlike 60', which is a suggestion contingent on actual post-OW experience/training, 130' is a stated certification limit for all recreational divers. I agree it's a suggestion in the sense that there's no SCUBA police here in the US, and if you want to go deeper/longer than your certification permits you're free to do so. Returning to the surface safely, and handling the ire of whomever you booked a ride with, is on you.

What's a good idea or what operators may require should not be confused with what the actual stated limits for a certification are. Doing so merely invites additional creeping paternalism, of which I submit we have more than enough already.

I don't agree that freshly minted OW/AOW divers aren't ready for "a lot of dives on the island"; personally, I jumped straight from AOW and rec EAN into deep air deco diving on/in wrecks before coming out here (not that I'm advocating that as a good idea). By the time I got here, Hawaii felt a bit like diving in an aquarium by comparison to the N.E. Atlantic, and I would have been fine diving the YO or Sea Tiger fresh out of OW or AOW. The difficulty of saying if that's true for any given diver, much less whether they can convince a dive op that's true, is the rub -- and a reason people can sell AOW courses.

I think divers without much non-tropical experience tend to overestimate the difficulty of Hawaii boat diving re: depth and current. Non-local divers do, however, seem to routinely underestimate the difficulty of Hawaii shore diving (Lanai Lookout, anyone?). As usual, the problem is poorly addressed by an approach of 'divers on A.M. charters must have AOW certification', but perhaps it's better than nothing. Not that either of us have to worry about this anymore When are you going to cross over to the dark side and join us silent divers on CCR?

 

[Michael SeaWolf]

Not to spoil the party, but wasn't this thread about diving in Hawaii? How did it get hijacked into something else? I got into this thread because I wanted to learn about the subject in the title.... as a new user, I'm curious whether a few people on this board do this frequently....?

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Not to spoil the party, but wasn't this thread about diving in Hawaii? How did it get hijacked into something else? I got into this thread because I wanted to learn about the subject in the title.... as a new user, I'm curious whether a few people on this board do this frequently....?

I'm sure those of us who regularly dive on Maui will eventually get around to taking a break from "hijacking" a thread in which you've made zero contributions and in which we've already provided substantive responses to the OP's question, and help you out, too.

Perhaps starting your own thread would be helpful, rather than tacking your plea onto the end of a thread in which the necessity of AOW for Hawaii dives was already under discussion.