Photon Torpedo Vs Halcyon Mini Scout Review

[ucfdiver]

Yes, but where is that any different from the riceboy with different manifold, headers, exhaust, timing, lifters, cams, suspension and a pile of stickers on the back to make it go faster? I doubt Honda wants to deal with the warranty issues from that kind of modification either, and you'll probably find language to void the warranty if you do that kind of thing. However, Honda can't get riceboys arrested for screwing with their cars, while apple can get hackers arrested for screwing with their O/S.

There's also absolutely no law against buying a Honda, souping it up and re-selling it (just Honda won't stand behind it anymore).

[ and yes, this is far more interesting of a discussion than the backup lights -- i completely lost interest after i found out it wasn't one of the new halcyon LED heads ]

I still see intellectual property as different than physical property. With software, you're not so much buying it as buying the rights to use it. With hardware, you're buying the physical piece. Microsoft limits certain server distributions to xx number of users, yet Ford can't limit the number of drivers for their vehicles sold.

Funny, I've never had problems with dual monitors on windows, but it's an absolute abortion on my macbook (at least as far as I've used it, which is only limited to the plugging in of an Apple->HDMI adapter in order to watch hulu on my TV).

I agree in any case. Apple's software is slick because they write it for an extremely small set of hardware configurations. If they set it up to work like MS on an almost limitless number of configurations with backwards compatibility up the wazoo, it would suffer the exact same issues.

Also, do it right or don't do it at all.

Agreed. Apple sucks at supporting legacy hardware, try an iPhone 3g running the latest firmware, it's painful! But with their current distribution for osx, they've terminated support on old hardware and done a pretty good job implementing a retirement cycle IMO.

 

[PerroneFord]

Ragnar,

The issue here is two fold.

1. You set up the review and your wording indicates that you have a bias toward the photon and against the Halcyon. That's fine, it's your review and you're more than welcome to share your opinion. However, those folks who own Halcyon gear, and are happy with it, are probably not going to agree with your review and are likely going to express that opinion. Frankly, I could care less. I have a Scout xenon and it's been just fine for me on cave exits. I also have had other backups that have been just fine.

2. The more difficult issue, is your commentary about signaling in a cave. Your comments make it clear that you do not have cave training, nor do you understand light signaling in that environment. So trying to tell cave divers what they need, or what is going to work, is probably not going to work out very well for you. Yes, brighter backups are nicer for cave exits. However, burn time, light pattern, and overall reliability are FAR more important factors. Thus, cave divers who've already invested in lights which they feel meet their needs are probably not going to be hugely interested in your comparison of lights that are "built" and not purchased.

For my own needs, I am shopping for another backup light. That light will likely be a Photon, a Light Monkey, or a Halcyon. I've been on all three webpages. As was the case 5+ years ago, the PT page is a mess. In fact, it doesn't look like it has been updated in several years. I can find no relevant information about the current product. It may well be the best backup light available, but the "face of the company" leads to a very poor impression. It's two primary competitors offer a much better presentation, both are very close geographically to me, and I have the utmost confidence in both of their products.

I'm sure you put a great deal of effort into your review. And I am sure that some people will find it useful. But frankly, I'd wager that most people are far more interested in a comparison of off-the-shelf Scout LED vs current Photon vs current Light Monkey. Because personally, I am not going to gerry rig up a backup light to go caving with. I am going to buy a product I believe in, test it, and then go diving.

Best of luck.

 

[Blackwood]

Agreed. Apple sucks at supporting legacy hardware, try an iPhone 3g running the latest firmware, it's painful!

Big time. My 3G has 4.0 on it, and sits in a drawer.

 

[Ragnar]

my PTs are about 4 years(?) out of date. if they've updated their LED slug that changes things (kinda really why i wanted to see a new stock halcyon vs. new PT bakeoff). the halcyon LED is not the same as the PT LED, AFAIK.

based on what i saw with the halcyon, i'd be inclined to think the $120 price tag was more than worth it, but i didn't have a new PT to compare to.

lamont you've been cool but I have to ask this question of some others. This DIR group leader among others seem excited about bright backups so why not take his head off too? He's not saying you have to have them or you'll be unsafe and neither did I, but it must offer some benefit for him to be willing to think the $120 price to be "more than worth it".

He likes bright lights, I like bright lights. I get my head handed to me. Fair?

Now we're off the brightness and onto the gerry rigging. You make some valid points Perrone, I hope some of the info I put here help you decide, I think the Gulftex website should be overhauled also but the light is top notch.

And for the fourth time, these are just two lights out of many that just happen to be bright and could possible get you out of a dark place, if someone wants to dive with dim bulbs no bulbs or something held together with duct tape that has blue H's on it, be my guest, I'm diving with these two lights that I put a damn lot of time into settling on and simply hope that someone benefits from this madness......

 

[lamont]

lamont you've been cool but I have to ask this question of some others. This DIR group leader among others seem excited about bright backups so why not take his head off too? He's not saying you have to have them or you'll be unsafe and neither did I, but it must offer some benefit for him to be willing to think the $120 price to be "more than worth it".

He likes bright lights, I like bright lights. I get my head handed to me. Fair?

you got your head handed to you for other reasons.

i have also actually done comparison tests in a cave back in 2007 of a Halcyon LED vs. Halcyon non-LED vs. PT LED against the halo glow of a 24W HID... at the time the Halcyon non-LED was actually better than the Halcyon LED since the red focused dot the Halcyon non-LED had could be easily tracked -- even with the diver with the 24W HID in front (gas failures). In between then and now, though, the Halcyon LED got a lot brighter and lot more focused. I don't have access, however, to both a new LED and a cave to test it in....

i also dive in crap green water for most of the year and a substantially brighter backup light will at least get my attention.

 

[lamont]

I still see intellectual property as different than physical property. With software, you're not so much buying it as buying the rights to use it. With hardware, you're buying the physical piece. Microsoft limits certain server distributions to xx number of users, yet Ford can't limit the number of drivers for their vehicles sold.

Ford can count on one car being used only by one driver at a time. Even at a rental car agency, you can't buy one car and rent it out to 100 people all at the same time, so the rental car company needs to buy 100 cars if they expect that kind of business (and Ford is happy to sell all those copies of its cars to them).

Software faces the problem that it can be copied and a single copy can be used by a million people all at the same time without any revenue coming back to the company that spent the time developing it. That makes it legitimate, in my mind, to restrict how many instances can be run at once, or i'd even grant only allowing the owner of the software to run the instance.

However, you should be able to run that software however you like, inspect it and take it apart however you like, hack it and transmit information to other owners to do whatever they like, and to sell and transfer the license to another user.

Agreed. Apple sucks at supporting legacy hardware, try an iPhone 3g running the latest firmware, it's painful! But with their current distribution for osx, they've terminated support on old hardware and done a pretty good job implementing a retirement cycle IMO.

Yes, legacy hardware support is a whole other issue. An iphone 3g isn't very old, but they've basically bricked the O/S with their software updates that require a faster CPU in order to run them. So hundreds of thousands of people at least have paid hundreds of dollars for a piece of hardware that 3 years later really isn't functional any more. Yet if you publish how to hack it, you'll get Apple's DMCA lawyers on your ass... I'm not sure why we put up with that.

 

[ucfdiver]

IMO software companies should be allowed to set whatever EULA they desire. If you don't like it, buy from somewhere else. Then again, I don't like telling bars you can't allow smoking, I'd rather show them I don't like it by not going there.

 

[Ragnar]

i also dive in crap green water for most of the year and a substantially brighter backup light will at least get my attention.

Partially yeah, I said right away I'm not a caveman. So green water, good for brighter backup, I guess that would include murky? I can't wait to come back to this forum at some point when everyone is talking about only using the new brighter Halcyon LED and how much safer it is. I'm pretty certain the day will come, just don't know how long it will take.

Thank you everyone who took the time, especially the longer responses and certainly the ones who did it with class like you, true professionals. Cheers.

 

[lamont]

IMO software companies should be allowed to set whatever EULA they desire. If you don't like it, buy from somewhere else. Then again, I don't like telling bars you can't allow smoking, I'd rather show them I don't like it by not going there.

The problem with bars is that the relatively low-income staff often doesn't have a lot of other economic choices about where to work, and that may mean you've got a choice between a sick/hungry kid at home, or exposing yourself day-in-day-out to smoke in order to make tips to support the kid. If it was just the patrons killing themselves with smoke, I wouldn't have so much of an issue with it.

And just because the vast majority is willing to sign over their rights for the latest electronic crack doesn't mean that contract should be held up as being valid. There are many terms and conditions in rental contracts that are simply illegal in the state of Washington and a landlord can't cause a renter to give up those rights. I think that kind of protection is essential, particularly for those with limited options, and mostly to avoid a race to the bottom mentality...

 

[Anti-Hero]

Speaking of backups... My two PTs are still rocking the xenon bulbs. Anyone know of a place to source the newer LED slugs? Preferably ones I don't have to add electrical tape to.