Petrel

[NAM001]

For me the most important selling point for th petrel is tht you dont need a manual to use it for any diving related operatons. Ther is no middle right 2 left and hold the right fin above your head to change gasses. Now for some , changing gasses is some sort of technical thing. For anyone knowledgable,,, sitting on the boat and changing from air to ean32 predive is a gas change. In additon anyone that has ever had to work the dongle to get data from the puter to thier laptop knows the value of the blutuooth interface. Next the ability to use almost any battery that will physically fit in the hole. The cost is less than many upper end computers. You can adjust the amount of conservitism that works for you best. or just leave it at 30/85. Ther is no padded data to protect the stupid from them selves. All rec computers should behave like this. I havnt so much as said a word about the tech side of it if you want to call it that.

 

[ronscuba]

Tbone, holy crap that was a long post !

I respect your opinions. You have way more knowledge and experience than I. I hope you can respect opinions that differ from yours. Not everything is black and white or right and wrong.

You say there is no difference between the needs of a recreational diver vs technical. Are some dives more dangerous, more advanced, require more experience than others ? Warm, clear, tropical, shallow, open water vs. cave, decompression, deep, mixed gases. Can you acknowledge that gear you deem useless or has no value, is at least safe for the less dangerous dives ?

What is the difference between a soft paddle fin and a split fin ? My wife is 5' 2", 115 pounds. She dives warm water tropical, single aluminum 80. She really wanted split fins. Was I an idiot for buying her split fins ? Should I have bought her stiff fins and told her to go to the gym to work on her legs ?

I got certified about 15 yrs ago. Have over 500 dives, all recreational. Not as experienced as you or many others, but I don't consider myself a newbie. All dives I used a Sunnto Cobra. It's basically an air integrated Zoop. 15 yrs of use, over 500 dives. Did I waste my money ? Do you consider me an unsafe diver because of my gear choices ?

 

[KenGordon]

Here a Petrel costs £600 while a Zoop costs £150. For a new ish diver that £450 might represent one of half a proper drysuit, a serious torch, half the cost of a week in Scapa, two long weekends away diving, a whole AN/DP course, both ADP and Explorer Mixed Gas courses, a week in the Red Sea, nine days' boat fees for a South Coast boat.

Faced with a new diver, in the flesh, what advice is more appropriate? Spend the money on an expensive computer with features you will not need for a couple of years IF EVER, or on a really good drysuit that will keep you warm and dry on every dive you do today, the next day and all they way till you might actually need the expensive computer?

This is not an argument against the Petrel, it applies to all the expensive computers. I think computers are a bit different to wings vs stab jackets and jet find vs the rest. In those cases there is a bit of a functional difference evident from the start, with the computers unless you have significant difficulty with vision then there isn't.

The same goes for regulators. Don't spend £600 on a reg.

BTW I own both a petrel and a Zoop.

 

[tbone1004]

There has never been any comments about safety of the equipment, and there won't be. You can safely dive in any equipment on the market, the question is what represents good value and what equipment has the ability to grow with you. I hate it when people recommend the Zoop, it's a terrible computer because it doesn't have the ability to grow with you and costs more than comparable computers that can grow with you. If it had gauge mode this would be a different discussion but Ken's Zoop is a paperweight when he does dives that go outside of his limits instead of being able to pop it into gauge mode and at least have it as a sanity check for depth and time.

for your wife wanting split fins, if that's what she wanted then fine, it's your wife you know better than to tell her no, but that doesn't mean they have any merit or that she made the right decision, only that she decided that's what she wanted for whatever reason and for your health and safety you got them for her. You'll never get me to say that split fins make sense because they don't, from a physics standpoint they are all wrong on the claims that the companies make, and they just don't work as well, but for your safety you made the right decision getting her what she wanted

 

[uncfnp]

Here a Petrel costs £600 while a Zoop costs £150. For a new ish diver that £450 might represent one of half a proper drysuit, a serious torch, half the cost of a week in Scapa, two long weekends away diving, a whole AN/DP course, both ADP and Explorer Mixed Gas courses, a week in the Red Sea, nine days' boat fees for a South Coast boat.

Faced with a new diver, in the flesh, what advice is more appropriate? Spend the money on an expensive computer with features you will not need for a couple of years IF EVER, or on a really good drysuit that will keep you warm and dry on every dive you do today, the next day and all they way till you might actually need the expensive computer?

This is not an argument against the Petrel, it applies to all the expensive computers. I think computers are a bit different to wings vs stab jackets and jet find vs the rest. In those cases there is a bit of a functional difference evident from the start, with the computers unless you have significant difficulty with vision then there isn't.

The same goes for regulators. Don't spend £600 on a reg.

BTW I own both a petrel and a Zoop.

So you have gone from its too technical for a recreational diver and dangerous to its too expensive for a new diver. That is a wide swing.

Have you noticed the title of this thread is Petrel?

Yes, some few do seem to make a blanket statement recommending Petrels. But much more often the posts address specific questions and often discuss pros and cons of a variety of DC's. But you would prefer that information about expensive computers (Petrels) be censored and not offered to new dives because you feel they should be spending their money elsewhere?

 

[Lorenzoid]

You can't argue with the Zoop's low price being an advantage. If a diver never intends to "grow" (terrible term, but let's go with it), does not find a Zoop's screen too small or the menu too annoying to navigate, then a Zoop may be fine. Several of the people I go on dive trips with have been diving in the same vacation-diver way for the past 15-20 years, and it's clear that is all the diving they are ever going to do. I have no idea what computers they use. They don't make a big deal about their computers, we never discuss computers, and they seem satisfied with whatever they are. Good for them.

In addition to my new Petrel, I have used a Zoop, a Suunto Cobra, and a Suunto D6. They're all perfectly suitable for my rec diving. The Zoop is good value for the money for people like the friends I mentioned above. The Petrel just makes everything slightly easier for me, that's all.

 

[KenGordon]

. If it had gauge mode this would be a different discussion but Ken's Zoop is a paperweight when he does dives that go outside of his limits

I use the Zoop as though it were a gauge. It beeps a bit at about 10m but eventually shuts up

I agree a gauge mode would be nice but Suunto charge you extra for that.

I am also prepared to lend it to anyone on the boat. I don't do that with stuff costing as much as a petrel.

 

[victorzamora]

I am also prepared to lend it to anyone on the boat. I don't do that with stuff costing as much as a petrel.

I've loaned my petrel to divers I had never met. Tbone has seen it happen.

As for using your zoop as a gauge, can you do a second dive after you violate the crap out of it? My understanding was it would lock you out

 

[KenGordon]

I've loaned my petrel to divers I had never met. Tbone has seen it happen.

As for using your zoop as a gauge, can you do a second dive after you violate the crap out of it? My understanding was it would lock you out

Typically I am not doing two deep dives with multiple deco gases in one day. If I am then it is the backup and just telling me the depth and time. Lockout means no longer calculating stops, not stopping telling me where I am.

If my main computer dies then I do the stops on my slate using the Zoop for depth and time, bent or not.

I'll be bending it on Sunday. I will make sure I am right then.

 

[ronscuba]

There has never been any comments about safety of the equipment, and there won't be. You can safely dive in any equipment on the market, the question is what represents good value and what equipment has the ability to grow with you. I hate it when people recommend the Zoop, it's a terrible computer because it doesn't have the ability to grow with you and costs more than comparable computers that can grow with you. If it had gauge mode this would be a different discussion but Ken's Zoop is a paperweight when he does dives that go outside of his limits instead of being able to pop it into gauge mode and at least have it as a sanity check for depth and time.

for your wife wanting split fins, if that's what she wanted then fine, it's your wife you know better than to tell her no, but that doesn't mean they have any merit or that she made the right decision, only that she decided that's what she wanted for whatever reason and for your health and safety you got them for her. You'll never get me to say that split fins make sense because they don't, from a physics standpoint they are all wrong on the claims that the companies make, and they just don't work as well, but for your safety you made the right decision getting her what she wanted

Most certified divers never grow past recreational diving. The Zoop is a recreational dive computer. I'd venture the % of certified divers in the world that are recreational only, way exceeds those that do technical advanced diving. For divers that will never do deco dives, is the Zoop still a useless paperweight ?

What fin do you recommend for a 50 yr. new female diver who is 5' 2", 115 pounds ?