Perceived value and can lights

[JeffG]

With the Sollys light, the belt strap is molded as part of the canister. If it break, it looks like you might need to purchase a new canister.

In the case of the Solly's light, if it broke you could just go to the clamps and webbing method. But the true PITA of the design is that when your webbing ends get a little frayed, its a pain to get the webbing through the hole.

Other parts of the Helios are also easily servicable. Replacing the reflector takes one minute. Replacing a bulb takes 5 minutes. I'm not sure that this can be said of a twist focus light.

I'm not sure about the reflector (might have to buy the reflector/lens housing piece), but the light can be replaced in less than 1 minute.

The only real design flaw with the Solly's light is that it can only have its focus adjusted when < 20 ft or so. (Otherwise you might destroy/damage the threads)


Jeff

(Owner of a Salvo 18 and the Sollys Terkel light. Where the Salvo is my main light and my Sollys is a backup or a loaner.)

 

[Northeastwrecks]

I'm not sure about the reflector (might have to buy the reflector/lens housing piece), but the light can be replaced in less than 1 minute.

You're right. When I said reflector, I meant the reflector/lens housing/everything in front of the ballast.

Either way, its an easy replacement. I've got an extra left over when I added an expedition handle. I keep it around just in case.

 

[boomx5]

I own a Terkel light and it has been flawless! I bought one of the very first ones and have about 300 dives on it and have never had a problem. In fact, I kind of abuse the thing and it still keeps on ticking away. The molded plastic is not going to break even if you beat on it with a hammer or try and pry it open...I know...I've tried. The light head has never leaked, the canister has never leaked and the light has ALWAYS fired. Granted, it may not look as polished as a Halcyon light, but I bought mine for about $400.00 brand new once upon a time so I consider it a good investment. I have heard of others who have had problems in the past with their Terkels, but I've have never experienced this myself.

On the other hand, I know people who have constant problems with their Halcyon light and swear they will never buy another one. The problems I've heard range from, lightcord leaks, lighthead leaks and not firing off. These problem are not with just one light but with people who have or do own more than one light that range from older to the newer designs.

Look, my light may not make me special like the Kool-Aide crowd. But when my light consistantly works, and theirs is back at the factory, I'm pretty happy about the serveral hundred bucks I kept in my pocket.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Oh boy ...

I currently own ...

- a Terkel/Solly's 10W HID
- a NiteRider 10W HID
- what started out as a Halcyon Helios 9 18W HID
- a Salvo 18W HID

We'll leave the last one out of the discussion, as it's brand new and I haven't had time to break it yet. Of the others ... (IMO, of course) ...

- The NiteRider is by far the most reliable, based on the fact that despite my track record for being really hard on gear (which is why I own at least three of everything), I haven't yet managed to break it. For travel it packs nicely (small and lightweight). The down side is that the beam is more a flood than a spot, and not very well suited for signaling or day diving in turbid water.

- The Terkel provides a very nice, tight beam. It's less expensive than it's Halcyon counterpart, and generally (IMO) has been more reliable. When I flooded this light, all I had to do was wash out the can, pop in another battery, and it was good to go. The downsides to this light are that you pretty much cannot focus it underwater, and that since Kricket has left the partnership, service on these lights ain't what it used to be ... and quality service should always be your primary concern when choosing an HID light.

- The Halcyon has been through a lot of changes. When I first got it I was very happy with its performance ... but when I flooded the light, I cleaned it up, popped in a new battery, and continued having problems with the light until I also replaced the switch, cord, and packing gland. The bulb proved to be rather delicate and easy to break ... and cost $200 to replace. I eventually had it converted to a 21W Britestar bulb for greater reliability. I've currently got over $2,000 into this light and am in the process of selling it for $800. For me, it wasn't such a good purchase.

Bottom line ... every piece of scuba gear you can buy comes with trade-offs ... things you'll like and things that someone else can do better. The "perceived value" is up to you ... decide which advantages you really gotta have and which disadvantages you can live with.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[JeffG]

Look, my light may not make me special like the Kool-Aide crowd. But when my light consistantly works, and theirs is back at the factory, I'm pretty happy about the serveral hundred bucks I kept in my pocket.

You're an X-Man anyways, so you were doomed even before you started

 

[boomx5]

You're an X-Man anyways, so you were doomed even before you started

Lol...you got that right.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Other than "this looks slick", what kind of "considerable thought" is going into the molded plastic design? For example, what "considerable thought" led to ditching the clear top?

What purpose does a clear top serve?

And are we looking at the result of people who understand molded plastic but who don't understand diving?

Gee ... I thought you knew Terkel was a diver ... DIR diver, even ...

You mean like those useless little molded plastic loops on the side?

Hardly useless. Think outside the DIR-box ... not everyone who uses a can light mounts it on their waist harness.

Plus, halcyon lights have been 18,000 fsw+ into cave systems. I'll take that over your startup investment cash any day...

That's like saying you'd buy a particular brand of ski because a particular ski racer uses them ... I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that the lights JJ and GI3 use aren't the same run-of-the-mill production units that you and I get to purchase.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Northeastwrecks]

What purpose does a clear top serve?

Visual confirmation that I've remembered to connect the battery connectors?

Before this gets too far out of control, I'm not trying to suggest that there is anything wrong with Terkels. If the people who use them find them reliable, and they are pleased with the performance, then I'm not going to criticize their decision.

However, I'm curious. There was a statement earlier in the thread that you can't adjust the beam below 20 feet or you risk damaging the threads.

I've needed to adjust my light beam much deeper than 20 feet. So I'm curious whether this is actually an issue and, if it is, how you handle the problem. In other words, is this really an issue or not?

 

[JeffG]

However, I'm curious. There was a statement earlier in the thread that you can't adjust the beam below 20 feet or you risk damaging the threads.

I've needed to adjust my light beam much deeper than 20 feet. So I'm curious whether this is actually an issue and, if it is, how you handle the problem. In other words, is this really an issue or not?

I don't find it much of an issue. I focus it once and I'm good to go. (This way it kinda behaves like a fix-focused light.)

The pain in the butt part is when you messed with your light (above water) and you lose your focus, and then when you are diving you get too deep to adjust it. (Sometimes in the shallows with good visibility and ambient light, it can be tough to get a good focus. It then is a bit "out" when at depth)

 

[cool_hardware52]

I have read this thread with some interest. The initial question is thought provoking, and the responses enlightening.

Because Tech Diving has traditionally been underserved by large manufacturers, often the solutions to TechDivings problems have sprung from producers with limited resources. Some pretty damn clever stuff I might add, but often these early solutions have become defacto "standards" when often the design was driven by what was available in ones garage, and at the local hardware / plumbing / farm supply.

From a diver with some manufacturing experience, and some injection molding experience, I view the Solly / Terkle canister as an interesting deviation from the norm.

Part count reduction can be not only a cost reducer, but is often a benefit in terms of fewer points of failure. Things like the integral switch guard means fewer screws, fewer tapped holes, etc.

The material of the canister IIRC is urethane, very very tough stuff. Urethane is a huge family with a very wide range of properties, and can be blended to produce anything from soft rubbery springs to completely rigid containers. Offers very good toughness.

If the question is purely perception, and not reality, then concerns about things like the molded in belt loop, or bolt on switch guard are fair to raise.

My question is: Have these areas of percieved problems proven to be genuine problems in use? If not why hasn't the perception changed?


Tobin