PCDC Storage bottle blows

[mike_s]

When divers start putting their money where their mouth is and only get fills from shops that perform all required maintenance, then these shops will have an incentive to perform the maintenance, as well as be able to afford to perform this same maintenance

The shops that are still in business are those that have performed the cost benefit analysis and choose the maintenance to perform based upon what they can afford to do (or less) while remaining profitable. This is similar to the trade off the auto industry evaluates for safety recalls vs lawsuits.

We as divers set the level of safety in the Industry that supports our hobby/sport.

The list of dive shops that perform all required maintenance and meet OSHA, etc guidelines will be very short.

Keith

I wouldn't get your hopes up on seeing this happen anytime soon.

for most dive shops, air fills are merely a necessary evil that is a "loss leader" to get people in the shop for other sales.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Have you ever tried to remove a single submarine ballast tank style bottle from a rack? These are the type of storage bottles that are the subject of this thread.

The Navy has this style of storage bottle inspected in place.

They Navy also tends to treat them as a limited service life item and replaces them when they age out as part of a major refit. That does not prevent them from showing up on the surplus market, or eventually having older tanks that were not replaced in service due to the decommissioning of a vessel eventually showing up after the scrap yard removes them.

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

I was down the street with John at Scampys and heard and felt the explosion as well, sounded like some loud thunder at the time but it rattled the building which we thought was strange so we were wondering what happened

 

[jviehe]

When divers start putting their money where their mouth is and only get fills from shops that perform all required maintenance, then these shops will have an incentive to perform the maintenance, as well as be able to afford to perform this same maintenance

The shops that are still in business are those that have performed the cost benefit analysis and choose the maintenance to perform based upon what they can afford to do (or less) while remaining profitable. This is similar to the trade off the auto industry evaluates for safety recalls vs lawsuits.

We as divers set the level of safety in the Industry that supports our hobby/sport.

The list of dive shops that perform all required maintenance and meet OSHA, etc guidelines will be very short.

Keith

Well, the main problem is we dont know what service is required. For sure, new divers dont. Id be interested in hearing from some dive shop owners as to the costs and problems associated with the safety aspect if running a dive shop.

 

[PhilEllis]

Well, the main problem is we dont know what service is required. For sure, new divers dont. Id be interested in hearing from some dive shop owners as to the costs and problems associated with the safety aspect if running a dive shop.

It is both wonderful and amazing that casualties at PCDC were limited to cuts. I am so glad that Mike and Jerry and the whole crew avoided any more serious injury. Also quite fortunate that no customers were injured.

To be honest, operating our air system causes me more restless nights than any other part of our business. The power of compressed air is gigantic, and I worry a lot about the impact of fittings coming loose, hoses flying, and bottles failing. I worry about every cylinder we fill.....was the inspection done well enough? Was the hydro done properly? Is there a problem with the valve? Lots of potential issues. While the statistical probability of such failures is extremely small, they still happen.

I have passed on opportunities to install larger bulk storage devices. I have had opportunities to purchase them very cheap....in fact, almost as low as the scrap metal value. Instead, we use HC6000 Taylor Wharton bottles in a somewhat permanent installation. We clean and inspect them each winter, but we are coming up on the first hydro this winter. This is considerable work, but it needs to be done.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

 

[FredT]

From the limited information that can be gleaned from the single picture showing the tanks in this thread those appear to be transport skid bottles, not Submarine bottles. Sub tanks are curved, skid bottles aren't. Different rules apply to each of those. I'm willing to let the inevitable PCB fire department investigation run a while before I make any judgment at all on this incident. Something caused the failure, so let's allow those with the parts in their hands to make an informed call as to what it was.

I may have an opinion, but that is all it can be until I get a chance to see the leftovers. Tom and Rick both have the experience to make a well educated guess, and they were nearby. let's wait until we at least hear more details from them before wildly speculating as to cause or accusing anybody.

 

[jviehe]

It is both wonderful and amazing that casualties at PCDC were limited to cuts. I am so glad that Mike and Jerry and the whole crew avoided any more serious injury. Also quite fortunate that no customers were injured.

To be honest, operating our air system causes me more restless nights than any other part of our business. The power of compressed air is gigantic, and I worry a lot about the impact of fittings coming loose, hoses flying, and bottles failing. I worry about every cylinder we fill.....was the inspection done well enough? Was the hydro done properly? Is there a problem with the valve? Lots of potential issues. While the statistical probability of such failures is extremely small, they still happen.

I have passed on opportunities to install larger bulk storage devices. I have had opportunities to purchase them very cheap....in fact, almost as low as the scrap metal value. Instead, we use HC6000 Taylor Wharton bottles in a somewhat permanent installation. We clean and inspect them each winter, but we are coming up on the first hydro this winter. This is considerable work, but it needs to be done.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

Yes, I agree, having worked at a fill station, done gas mixing, and taken the VCI course, the more I learn, the scarier it gets. What about actually filling bottles? Is this done behind a blast wall, is this neccesary, and whats the cost of such safety?

 

[PhilEllis]

Yes, I agree, having worked at a fill station, done gas mixing, and taken the VCI course, the more I learn, the scarier it gets. What about actually filling bottles? Is this done behind a blast wall, is this neccesary, and whats the cost of such safety?

We do not use a blast containment system. I think that is the case with well over 98% of all scuba stores. I have looked into the cost of a containment system. They are both expensive and add a considerable amount of labor to the cost of air delivery. Cylinder fill practices in a scuba store bring the bulk of all fills into a very short period of time. While the fill station sits for hours and hours and hours without a fill, we are then often presented with the need to fill 40-50 cylinders in a very short period of time. The containment systems that I have reviewed REALLY slow the process, and economical ones don't provide for filling more than a couple of cylinders at a time. I think the safest thing to do is to run a solid cylinder inspection program, to question cylinders presented with inspections done by "unknown" sources, and to err on the side of caution by not bringing ANY questionable cylinders into the fill operation.

Many people have questioned the "loss leader" aspects of filling scuba tanks. That is partly correct. Cylinders used for training classes are filled and they represent only a cost. There is not specific revenue attached to those cylinders. In our store, where we fill only slightly more than 100 revenue-producing cylinders per month, the monthly revenue from all other cylinders barely covers the monthly expenses from running the compressor, testing the air, and maintaining the fill system. That does not even factor in the capital investment for the fill station.

It is a difficult situation for most low to medium volume scuba fill stations. Money spent must be recovered. We simply have to use the best possible practices and use the best available caution.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

 

[Rick Murchison]

as for the tank that blew, it was a 16' long tank I think.

Looked longer than that to me... my guess was 24' - but I didn't measure.
Rick

 

[Hallmac]

as for the tank that blew, it was a 16' long tank I think.

can you even get something like that hydro'd? (I bet not easily).

If they are like these, they are given a visual and then hammer tested. I have never seen a facility that could hydro them. We have 4 in our air bank.