Panic regulator removal

[Walter]

NO, not at all. YOu are missunderstanding what I said. I said that when a student panics, 50% toss the reg.... I didn't say that 50% of his students panic.

I never thought you said 50% of his students panic. I'm sure it's way less than 50% and probably way less than 10%, but even if it's one student and it could be prevented, isn't that a goal he would like to achieve? I thought you said, "My husband says he is constantly putting regs back into divers mouths." To me, that indicates lots of panicked students.

In perfect conditions, I've seen lots of students and lots of certified divers panic. This can almost always be traced to either a lack of methods in the class designed to reduce panic or a lack of practice of those methods. If conditions are tougher, then instituting methods to help reduce the possibility of panic are even more crucial. No one is perfect, certainly not me, and not even your husband, although I'm sure he's excellent. We all have room to improve, perhaps this is an area in which he can improve. Most instructors have never learned these methods. They are, sadly, left out of most agencies' programs.

 

[Colliam7]

No, but I've seen it more times than I care to remember.

Walter, thanks. You were, of course, an integral part of that discussion in the other thread and I was hoping that you, Thal, Rick, or someone would either remember a source, or at least confirm that you have either seen it or heard of it.

 

[TSandM]

I've actually had it happen to me . . . on the surface. Jumping into 42 degree water in Nanaimo last winter, and making my way along the granny line to the bow anchor line for descent, I couldn't catch my breath. I ended up taking my regulator out of my mouth, which was stupid, because we had significant surface chop, and I ended up aspirating some salt water. I put it back in, but took it back out again because I just felt as though I couldn't breathe properly.

That was the point where I looked at the deckhand just above me and thought, "I'm on the edge of panic . . . on the surface, hanging onto the boat that I can get back on ANY TIME I WANT. What in heaven's name is WRONG with me?" So I sat, and controlled my breathing, and got things back under control, and went on to have a lovely dive.

And found out later that I could expect some of the breathlessness every time I jumped into that ice-cold water. But I can testify that, when you get short of breath, the last thing you want is something in your mouth, even if your brain knows that something is the source of the air you're breathing. After that experience, I had a lot more empathy for panicked divers underwater.

 

[Colliam7]

But I can testify that, when you get short of breath, the last thing you want is something in your mouth, even if your brain knows that something is the source of the air you're breathing.

My sense as well. And, I have certainly experienced the sensation underwater, where I was overexerting and desparately wanted to get my regulator out of my mouth.
My reason for the OP: periodically we see reports of diver deaths, where they are found unresponsive in the water, on the bottom, regulator out of their mouth, plenty of air in their tank. They are brought to the surface, possibly embolize of the ascent, and the cause of death is ultimately given as 'drowning', or 'air embolization'. But, why does a diver drown underwater? I accept that there may be a number of reasons. A not uncommon lay diagnosis of convenience is 'heart attack'. And, it is possible that a stressed individual, with some modest degree of underlying coronary disease, elevated circulating catecholamines, can experience vasospasm, etc. Or, it just so happens that they have an MI when they are underwater. Nonetheless, I am wondering if regulator removal secondary to panic underwater is as likely, or more likely than the convenient 'heart attack'. No way to prove or disprove the hypothesis, just wondering in public.

 

[K_girl]

I posted a message a while back about an incident March 2007 involving my sister who over-exerted herself in a very fast current. Overexertion leads to CO2 build-up by overbreathing the reg. The CO2 poisoning forced her into shallow, rapid breathing (hyperventaling) that she could not control or stop and began to panic. In desparation to breathe, she took the reg out of her mouth and came very close to breathing in water. If this is the post you are looking for, here is the full post:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...ey-largo-12-30-a-post3300080.html#post3300080

 

[Darnold9999]

TSandM - Had a similar thing happen last week in nice warm water but a strong current and heavy chop on the surface. Just could not get enough air so took the reg out - knew it was not an issue but no fun. Almost called the dive, but managed to get a grip on the anchor line and just rested a while on the surface before heading down.

A question - if CO2 buildup starts to happen in a situation where you need to exert yourself i.e. strong current how do you prevent or curtail it. Once you pass a certain point I find it very hard to recover short of just going with the current which is not always a good idea.

 

[sea nmf]

I've witnessed it on the surface with one of the most level-headed people I know. They kept saying "I can't breath!" I couldn't wrap my mind around it, really. (This was in Lake Washington in the summer.)

I agreed that we needed to get back on the boat and we aborted the dive. She was scheduled to go on a dive trip with me in a few weeks, and I worried, a little. It turned out to be about the cold water, even though she learned to dive and did all of her diving up until then in Puget Sound.

 

[Seadeuce]

Overbreathing, or "Beating the Reg" commonly occurs when:


a) Swimming against a current;

b) Trying to catch up with a DM/buddy;

c) Descending along a reference line - buoyline/shotline/rockface into dark gloomy depth - where you can see the reference line disappear ahead of you in poor visibility/darkness;

d) Exerting yourself at depth, or on the surface;

e) Beginning your descent, e.g. following your buddy, without first getting your breathing back to normal on the surface;

f) Exceeding your "Comfort Zone"


In all cases the overbreathing cycle is caused by the perception of a LACK OF AIR, even though your tank may be near full.

To give yourself IMMEDIATE RELIEF and overcome the breathing resistance of your regulator LIGHTLY PRESS on the purge button of your reg and continue breathing.

You'll waste a few bubbles but you WILL relax your breathing.

It works at the surface by putting your face in the water and doing the above.

If, on the surface, you are after an exerting swim against a current while, say, reaching a buoyline/shotline and you want to get your breathing under control ASAP, just lift the nose-covering of your mask over your nose whilst retaining your reg in your mouth.

You will find (unless surface conditions don't allow it) that the immediate availability of fresh air, together with the reg, will have your heartrate down and your breathing relaxed in no time.

Try it before jumping to the wrong conclusions just because it "ain't in the book"!
There's one hell of a lot of stuff that is not covered by manuals that can make the sport of diving safer and more enjoyable!!


Seadeuce

 

[ArcticDiver]

I think it is important to differentiate between panic caused by actual or perceived oxygen starvation and pseudo-panic caused by an inadequate understanding of the process.

The last first. I was on the ascent line after a dive to 90+ feet when another diver literally climbed over me and everyone else headed for the surface. He lost his mask on the way up. So, after a 20 minute dive to 90+ feet he made his ascent to the surface in something less than a minute.

At the appropriate time I asked him why? He said he only had 500psi in his tank. I asked why didn't he stop to share air with one of the people he climbed over? Or, maybe use the long hose regulator the dive boat put overboard and that we had been briefed on? His answer: "My instructor said I had to be on the boat with at least 500psi or I couldn't dive. And the Dive Guide said to be back on the boat with 500psi".

I submit this guy panicked, not because he was short of gas; but because he had an inadequate understanding of the process. Obviously his instructor failed him by not making sure he fully understood the basic parameters.

On to the first. Yep, I, like most everyone I know, has gotten an airway full of cold water and had to fight off incipient panic. I used to unknowingly set myself up for this by trying to conserve breathing gas by taking the regulator out of my mouth during the swim to the mooring line. After a couple times I realized how dumb that was and now just get there as fast as I can and get down the line as fast as the ears will allow. Plus, now I usually dive with much more gas so I'm more relaxed and don't feel the pressure to go fast. Guess what? I use less gas as a result. Imagine that!

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Seadeuce, thank you. That was very informative, and one more technique into my bag of tricks. Much appreciated!!