Question Panic in the experienced diver?

It would seem to me that, as we gain experience and go through some minor glitches on dives, we should increase our capacity to tolerate issues underwater. I'm wondering what could cause an experienced (say, more than 200 lifetime dives) diver to become distressed enough to lose rational thought. Has anyone here (who meets those criteria) been through a panic event? What caused it, and what did you do?

 

[crofrog]

I went cenote diving two Aprils ago. I had about 85 dives at the time and I was OW certified. It was my first time diving, and it was just me and the DM. He did a superb job of explaining everything-the 1/3 gas plan, staying on the line, and following the triangles. We had not seen anyone in the first two cenotes. As we dove our way to the third, we passed a group of five with cameras leaving. We then dove into a room area which was completely suited out with no visibility AT ALL!!! I completely panicked for 30 seconds. I then remembered: 1) my first DM said the first rule of diving is NEVER PANIC, 2) I had plenty of air, 3) the DM was no more than 3- 4 feet ahead of me, 4) the line is within 2 feet of me, and 5) I can follow the triangles out if I need to. I then calmed down, we continued slowly swimming out of there and the visibility cleared. It was fine on the way back. After the dive, the DM said the other DM shouldn't have let his divers silt up the area, and he should report him, but he wasn't going to. And that's the only time I've had full blown panic.

That should be silted out-not suited out! And I mean no visibility-you couldn't see your hand if it was in front of your face! At that point in my diving career, I was used to at least 30 feet of visibilty, and up to 80 or more as all my diving had been Cozumel, Belize and Dahab.

I've had dives since then where I was scared, and probably looking back, were well worthy of full blown panic, but I never have again. Twice where there were turns in the swim thrus, and I waited because of visibility, and my buddy left me each time-that wasn't fun. I am anal about checking my air and depth.

If it was truly a 0 vis silt out you described for an entire “room” and you didn’t have the hand on the line going into it you should be thankful you’re alive. The guide should never have taken you into the silt.

 

[Allen-1]

Some people are more prone to panic than others but training, repetition and time at the task can usually solve all of the issues. In the 1970's a guy I knew was learning how to skydive but actually leaving the door of the A/C was something he couldn't do. He would panic and refuse to go near the door. Its somewhat uncommon perhaps involving 1/2% of students. Normally an instructor would only take such a person up 2-3 times at most before they would advise them to find another sport. Naturally every aircraft ride costs $$. Finally after 7-8 rides he made his first jump and went on to make over 1,000 more.

I took my UW training about the same time. It was through a club in the winter of Canada and lasted the five months, twice a week. Training included buddy breathing two lengths of the pool and diving to the bottom of the pool blindfolded. Then you had to search for your gear, turn the air on and put all your equipment on.

Spring rolls around and its time for the check out dive. This is pre octopus regs and pre computers. So the instructor an I at are about 50' and eventually I'm about 600 psi so I show him my gauge, he nods and we continue. A bit later my reg gets hard to breathe so I flip the J valve down motion to the instructor what just occurred and we continue! Well it seemed like a minute later I was out of air. So I signalled that I was out of air and we started buddy breathing to the surface. Subsequently he admitted that he was quite embarrassed by it all. But i thought it was all a part of the dive.

Most skydivers review safety procedures in their minds on every jump. Because if the main parachute either doesn't open or opens is some fashion that makes landing under it dangerous. Time is of the essence and time wasted diagnosing a problem can put you too low to have any chance for a unobstructed landing area. Or worse.

Always keep track of air, depth and emergency options. If you have psychological issues with some area of the diving experience work at it until you're completely comfortable with it. Keep in mind that your buddy could have issues for which your assistance may be necessary.

I had a jump go bad, worked through it, did an off field landing. My daughter was there as a spectator and asked me if I was scared during it. I told her the truth. When it was happening, I didn't have spare time to be scared, I needed the time to deal with the problem(s) and couldn't waste it. Plenty of time after I was on the ground to let the adrenaline dump give me the shakes.

My (now) wife was there, first time she'd come to the field. She's watching, and as she told me later, the guy next to her watching the dive saw me, and said "oh **** - that guy's gonna die". I laughed - she wasn't amused.

 

[Bookworm11]

The room was not silted out as we entered it. The no visibility began further in once we had entered. If I said the entire room was silted out, then that was my mistake. Certainly a fair to large portion of it was. We were directly over the line. The DM, who had over 10000 dives, was leading. He was an extremely experienced cave diver. I am not going to question his judgement of he was correct or not.

 

[ImpotentSeaSnake]

I’m new (20 dives) and get anxiety and even drowning nightmares. I’ve read a bit of military history and think about the soldiers that were sent on way more dangerous missions and survived. Panicking and freaking out just wasn’t an option. They were on a mission. They were trained to prepare for that mission and had to rely on their training to survive.
When I start to get anxious, I try to put myself in that mindset: I am on a mission and this is what they trained me for so now I must do it and think of nothing else, but what I’m supposed to be doing to support the mission.

 

[crofrog]

The room was not silted out as we entered it. The no visibility began further in once we had entered. If I said the entire room was silted out, then that was my mistake. Certainly a fair to large portion of it was. We were directly over the line. The DM, who had over 10000 dives, was leading. He was an extremely experienced cave diver. I am not going to question his judgement of he was correct or not.

If you’re not cave trained you’re not qualified to understand the risk you were put into. I’ve been on the line in a cave that was close to zero. I couldn’t see my hand on the line at arms length. If I put my computer to my mask I could still read it so it could have been worse. Being a few feet above it isn’t going to help you if it goes to zero.

Did you have a safety spool and know how to use it? What technique were you planning on conducting the lost line search with? Shotgun, circular, wall to wall?

Open water divers have died on trust me dives in Mexican caves more than once.

 

[ScubaJoey.com]

40 pages of replies.. I'll ad my quick thought on the topic. A newbie diver is scared and checks everything. A complacent diver is someone who hasn't had a accident happens and thinks they got it.

Complacency kills. Once you've experienced a real scenario, you learn to always be methodical and dive within your limits and skills.

 

[Bookworm11]

I'm not cave trained, that's true. But isn't this thread here to post about panic? And if we overcame it? Which I did and fairly quickly?
And here is a genuine question. So if I enter a room that is silted out, what do I do? I am not the DM, so don't I follow his lead? Or was your point that the DM made a poor decision?
And I am very aware that both open water and cave divers have died in Mexican caves and cenotes. I am very aware that divers die just in open water. I am very aware of all the risks of diving and why there are rules, and that if rules are broken, bad things usually happen. Even if no bad things happen, people die.

 

[crofrog]

I'm not cave trained, that's true. But isn't this thread here to post about panic? And if we overcame it? Which I did and fairly quickly?
And here is a genuine question. So if I enter a room that is silted out, what do I do? I am not the DM, so don't I follow his lead? Or was your point that the DM made a poor decision?

You didn't know any better. The DM should never have led you into that room. Once he saw the viability was low he should have turned the group around. CREER Lineas a committee of Mexican cave diving instructors have worked to create guidelines for how to safely conduct guiding open water divers in Cenotes. The requirements for a cenote dive with open water divers is a minimum of 50ft of visibility.

While I applaud you from not panicking. I do not want your take away to be that because of the DM did it with you it was safe.

I am not going to question his judgement of he was correct or not.

You should be questioning his judgement, he put you into a situation in which you came very close to panicking.

There are rules governing the safe conduct of cave dives, by this point of the dive most of them had been violated. The ability for the system you were diving in to "fail safely" was basically gone. Any additional problems could have easily resulted in a fatality. Your safety is your responsibility not the guides.

If you would have panicked and lost the line you had a limited air supply, no experience doing zero vis exits, no experience in or the required equipment to conduct a lost line search and I'm assuming you didn't have redundant gas supply (doubles or side mount), or redundant lights.

In zero vis the guide that's 3ft away might as well not even be in the water with you.

So you should ask yourself, "Was I good, or did we just get lucky?"

 

[boulderjohn]

I am not the DM, so don't I follow his lead? Or was your point that the DM made a poor decision?

This is a very difficult situation. Yes, a DM is leading you, so it is very hard to ignore the professional leading your group. About a decade ago, a DM leading a cavern group in Mexico took them into the cave. No on knows why, because none of them made it out.

On two different occasions many years ago, I was in a situation where the second of a 2-tank dive was led by a DM who was not on the first dive. He led the second dive like it was a first dive, taking us so deep that we were all near NDLs while he (being on his first dive) was fine. I was still a relatively new diver, but in both cases I let the group know that I was leaving, and in both cases the rest of the group followed me. I had just enough experience to have the courage to act when I saw the problem.

And I am very aware that both open water and cave divers have died in Mexican caves and cenotes. I am very aware that divers die just in open water. I am very aware of all the risks of diving and why there are rules, and that if rules are broken, bad things usually happen. Even if no bad things happen, people die.

What you write here is dangerous thinking. It implies that since some people who follow the rules die, it must mean that there is no reason to follow the rules. It implies that the "some people die when they don't follow the rules" is equal to "some people die when they do follow the rules." This is a common error in scuba logic.

An example is in cave diving statistics. I have seen people write on ScubaBoard that statistics show that in cave diving fatalities, about half of the people who die are certified cave divers and half are not certified, meaning there is no benefit to certification. The problem is that for that to be mathematically valid, the number of certified and uncertified divers in caves would have to be the same. In reality, it is likely that 99% of the people who enter caves are certified to do so, meaning that the percentage of certified divers who die is miniscule and the percentage of uncertified divers who die is huge.

Similarly, most divers follow the rules. Thus, the "some" people who die while following the rules is a very tiny percentage, while the "some" who die while not following the rules is relatively huge.

 

[happy-diver]

Once you've experienced a real scenario, you learn to always be methodical and dive within your limits and skills.

unless you always methodically dive beyond your limits to develop new skills and experience learning