It would seem to me that, as we gain experience and go through some minor glitches on dives, we should increase our capacity to tolerate issues underwater. I'm wondering what could cause an experienced (say, more than 200 lifetime dives) diver to become distressed enough to lose rational thought. Has anyone here (who meets those criteria) been through a panic event? What caused it, and what did you do?
Question Panic in the experienced diver?
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Sincere question, not intended to be cynical in any way: Is this an FYI or a recommendation? Have you, or anyone else, watched these videos? If so, what do you think? A posting in the Book and Media Reviews would be useful, good and/or bad.
seaducer
Contributor
When I think of panic, I think of someone frozen in fear, not able to act and perhaps not even able to think or is unaware of those around them. Maybe that is Hollywood stuff, I don't know.
The closest I ever came while diving was about 11 years ago. My father had undergone his second surgery in 4 days to remove a cancerous tumor from his neck. Shortly after I was allowed to see him it was time for me to leave for a night dive, and my first of the season. I didn't want to go but my parents insisted. I was sure my father was given a death sentence when he was diagnosed (and he was), but at that time the doctors were sure he would survive.
At any rate I dropped into very poor vis just as the sun went down, some current but nothing more than I have dealt with at this site before. For the first time ever (and never since) I experienced such a case of vertigo that even laying on the bottom I could not stop the sensation that I had no idea which way was which.
I tried my best to control my breathing and concentrate on the rocks around me to stop the world from spinning. My buddy never realized I was in trouble, he was very much concerned with his young son, newly certified and on his first ever night dive. I do not fault my buddy, we discussed our plan before entry and agreed he would stick with his son if the vis was poor, and I would piddle around on my own.
I breathed through about 1500 pounds in 13 minutes at 15 fsw, and staring at my guages to see the needle move I swam up. As soon as my head broke the surface I spit the reg and I was fine.
Have no idea what was behind that, our tanks were filled at the same place at the same time and the father/son team had an ok dive, conditions being crappy.
Never have I felt that way again, in fact I generally feel a sense of calm and safety when I slip under...
I chalk it up to not being mentally prepared for the dive, and I have not repeated the experience.
The closest I ever came while diving was about 11 years ago. My father had undergone his second surgery in 4 days to remove a cancerous tumor from his neck. Shortly after I was allowed to see him it was time for me to leave for a night dive, and my first of the season. I didn't want to go but my parents insisted. I was sure my father was given a death sentence when he was diagnosed (and he was), but at that time the doctors were sure he would survive.
At any rate I dropped into very poor vis just as the sun went down, some current but nothing more than I have dealt with at this site before. For the first time ever (and never since) I experienced such a case of vertigo that even laying on the bottom I could not stop the sensation that I had no idea which way was which.
I tried my best to control my breathing and concentrate on the rocks around me to stop the world from spinning. My buddy never realized I was in trouble, he was very much concerned with his young son, newly certified and on his first ever night dive. I do not fault my buddy, we discussed our plan before entry and agreed he would stick with his son if the vis was poor, and I would piddle around on my own.
I breathed through about 1500 pounds in 13 minutes at 15 fsw, and staring at my guages to see the needle move I swam up. As soon as my head broke the surface I spit the reg and I was fine.
Have no idea what was behind that, our tanks were filled at the same place at the same time and the father/son team had an ok dive, conditions being crappy.
Never have I felt that way again, in fact I generally feel a sense of calm and safety when I slip under...
I chalk it up to not being mentally prepared for the dive, and I have not repeated the experience.
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had quite a few instances when i had a panic attack. was at around 30m, we saw a turtle & a shark, maybe i got excited, started to hyperventilate, then i started to panic since i felt that i can't breathe. i wanted to take out my reg & bolt right up to the surface. i was thinking, i don't want to die this way so i grabbed hold of the nearest person to calm myself down. another instance is when diving in not so clear conditions, & i can't see where i'm going or can't see anything at all....
OP
Some of these stories are actually validating my initial suspicion, which is that experience generally gives people the poise to cope with even rather distressing problems without panic (defined as an irrational, unproductive or counterproductive action taken out of fear).
I saw it happen to a diver I know to be both experienced in the water and a combat vet. It was ugly, and surprising as I had a lot of experience diving this guy and I felt we were on par when it came to handling stress. I won't dive with him again, and I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it as he did his damnedest to drown me in his flailing. I know I personally have not yet met a situation diving or otherwise that has caused me to panic (well, marriage, maybe) and while I agree that we all are probably susceptible it I spend a lot of time drilling in order to build muscle memory and automatic response for when things go sideways.
This isn't to say I don't experience fear. The front tire of my motorcycle blew out last week while I was doing about 80 mph on the highway. I was fairly convinced I was going to die, and I had a fairly healthy level of fear. That didn't interfere with my ability to make conscious decisions or take automatic actions to try and bring the bike under control. Since I'm typing this it's fairly obvious it all worked out, and although scary hasn't prevented me from riding.
While I am a fan of getting back on the (iron)horse should you fall off I think any diver who experiences full blown panic out to think long and hard about getting back in the water because I don't want a buddy who is going to flip out on me.
Michael
This isn't to say I don't experience fear. The front tire of my motorcycle blew out last week while I was doing about 80 mph on the highway. I was fairly convinced I was going to die, and I had a fairly healthy level of fear. That didn't interfere with my ability to make conscious decisions or take automatic actions to try and bring the bike under control. Since I'm typing this it's fairly obvious it all worked out, and although scary hasn't prevented me from riding.
While I am a fan of getting back on the (iron)horse should you fall off I think any diver who experiences full blown panic out to think long and hard about getting back in the water because I don't want a buddy who is going to flip out on me.
Michael
JCAT
Contributor
After reading the threads on SB and DAN today, my one experience was probably brought on by being very cold, perhaps shallow, rapid breathing trying to stay warm, C02 retention, depth at 90ffw, and little light.
My body was on auto-pilot as I was having thoughts of dread/apprehension/paranoia at a location I dive frequently. Had there been any issue I needed to address during the dive, it would have been compounded, perhaps drastically, by these inappropriate thoughts/feelings.
At a certain level, I was not thinking rationally, but once I cleared the thermo on the way up and got warmer, the dread went away and I was my usual self.
Physical panic did not happen, but the experience was very unpleasant.
My body was on auto-pilot as I was having thoughts of dread/apprehension/paranoia at a location I dive frequently. Had there been any issue I needed to address during the dive, it would have been compounded, perhaps drastically, by these inappropriate thoughts/feelings.
At a certain level, I was not thinking rationally, but once I cleared the thermo on the way up and got warmer, the dread went away and I was my usual self.
Physical panic did not happen, but the experience was very unpleasant.
DaleC
Contributor
I was thinking of Thal's Cone of Safety and relating it to my own method of diving to prevent panic. I have my own cone that I feel somewhat "in control" in and try to plan my dives to remain within it.
I try to maintain a high degree of mental reference to the surface and/or viable exit point and will often pause to reorient myself during a dive. This is very important to me.
I also usually have some sort of predetermined graduated bailout plan in the back of my head as well. In a situation wherein I feel "sketchy" I allow myself the option to a rapid ascent crossing no more than 2 atm's (A Haldanian concept I believe) before pausing to reassess. Therefore, from 30-40' I would go directly to the surface (50''s pushing it I think). In practical terms this allows me to dive without redundancy. From 40-70' I'd plan to stop at 15' to regroup and from 100' I'd stop at 50'. In the latter case, the ascent to 50' should shake off both the effects of narcossis and improve the lighting (which also improves ones mental state). From there I could reassess my options and also feel fairly confident of a successful ESA if need be. From the cone of safety concept, I suppose this is moving from the narrow inverted apex where few options are available to a broader region wherein more options arise.
I also dive with a redundant airsource at depth that I use on a regular basis (thus developing familiarity) which does a great deal to reduce the panic reflex.
I try to maintain a high degree of mental reference to the surface and/or viable exit point and will often pause to reorient myself during a dive. This is very important to me.
I also usually have some sort of predetermined graduated bailout plan in the back of my head as well. In a situation wherein I feel "sketchy" I allow myself the option to a rapid ascent crossing no more than 2 atm's (A Haldanian concept I believe) before pausing to reassess. Therefore, from 30-40' I would go directly to the surface (50''s pushing it I think). In practical terms this allows me to dive without redundancy. From 40-70' I'd plan to stop at 15' to regroup and from 100' I'd stop at 50'. In the latter case, the ascent to 50' should shake off both the effects of narcossis and improve the lighting (which also improves ones mental state). From there I could reassess my options and also feel fairly confident of a successful ESA if need be. From the cone of safety concept, I suppose this is moving from the narrow inverted apex where few options are available to a broader region wherein more options arise.
I also dive with a redundant airsource at depth that I use on a regular basis (thus developing familiarity) which does a great deal to reduce the panic reflex.
Mike, would suggest that you tempter your judgement a bit. The military has invested millions studying and working on programs to control panic (as they loose a lot of people they have invested a lot of time and money in to it). Some remarkable work has been done in the last couple of years (seal graduation rates, for example have more than doubled).
Several of the key points should be kept in mind:
1. Everyone can panic... everyone. The worst is someone that believes they don't or will not;.
2. What causes one to panic can be completely different for someone else.
3. You cannot control something you don't believe you will do, so the first step is understanding your drivers and your individual response.
4. Freezing is a type of panic... some people go crazy, some stop moving... same event, just a different response. Once should never judge one response as better or worse.
Having been thru the old military training... we lost a lot of really good people because at some point, they panicked. Today we know that they just got pushed over their individual limit.. and we all have one.
It cannot be stopped, but it can be controlled (in most people).
I'm also a combat vet, and have had that face to face "We are going to make it thru this" talk more times than I would ever have like to. Many of those same people were far better than I was later on.
Several of the key points should be kept in mind:
1. Everyone can panic... everyone. The worst is someone that believes they don't or will not;.
2. What causes one to panic can be completely different for someone else.
3. You cannot control something you don't believe you will do, so the first step is understanding your drivers and your individual response.
4. Freezing is a type of panic... some people go crazy, some stop moving... same event, just a different response. Once should never judge one response as better or worse.
Having been thru the old military training... we lost a lot of really good people because at some point, they panicked. Today we know that they just got pushed over their individual limit.. and we all have one.
It cannot be stopped, but it can be controlled (in most people).
I'm also a combat vet, and have had that face to face "We are going to make it thru this" talk more times than I would ever have like to. Many of those same people were far better than I was later on.
We were diving a cattle boat on the Speigle Grove (first time for me) and i was paired up with an insta-buddy. We did our pre-dive planning and checks and descended to about 100' and started the dive. About 5 minutes into the dive, my mouthpiece split and i got a healty dose of salt water. Coughing and gagging, I switched to my Octo-Z and looked around to find my dive buddy was nowhere to be found! I am still somewhat gagging from the effects of the salt water and made a controlled ascent to 15' for a safety stop and then to the surface to find a had a pretty long surface swim to the boat. My supposed buddy just continued his dive and came back like nothing happened. If my backup had failed, I would not be here to talk about it.
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