Panic and Tech Diving

[TSandM]

That is a superb post, DAA!

I decided for myself, and I continue to believe, that nothing should be learned in a cave if it can be learned elsewhere. Go into the overhead with as many things as possible already "automatic", and you have the most bandwidth to manage the unexpected.

 

[BabyDuck]

and i liked lamont's post about the incident pit. that's a great way of conceptualizing it - take care of all the little things that come up while you can, to keep you far away from the edge of the abyss.

 

[lamont]

Again, I can't say I disagree with your last post. All I'm saying is that some people can have all the training, excel at all the skills, follow all the rules and still fall prey to panic. And then you can also find a poor schmuck willing to strap a tank to his back with no training, no skills, and no knowledge of rules and this guy could even die underwater without ever falling prey to panic.

In this real life example, the diver who panicked did so for reasons unrelated to training, skills, or rules. He survived, and apparently he ended up recognizing that his "steering mechanism" is malfunctioning and he just "took out that car from circulation", ie he never did that kind of dive again.

Doing deep trimix diving while you're having nightmares about dying underwater is a bad idea. I'd consider that a step into the incident pit right from the start, and a stressor that he was carrying around with him the whole time. The work that they had to do kicking to get down there also may have led to CO2 build up and between the CO2 and the stress of seeing the body that kicked off a paranoid narc that built up into panic. If they were on scooters or had more helium in the mix he might not have gotten pushed over the edge. Who knows what his experience level was as well -- he may have been doing 300 ft dives way too soon in his diving career and pushing the envelope too hard (and the dreams may have been a warning sign that he was going too fast). The write up by his buddy may have been a little self-serving in that it may have been his buddy pushing him too fast to get to 300 feet. So, it isn't at all obvious to me that the accident you posted had nothing to do with training, skills or rules.

And I think you and DA are reading my training and rules statements like that is all I'm saying you need to do. I never said that is it, and never said that all you have to do is get the training and follow the rules and you'll be safe -- that would be an idiotic statement. It is very clear to me that you don't have to go past that analysis for the *specific* incident that we're talking about. However, the larger point is to stay within limits, generally, in order to reduce stress. I have a "Full Cave" card, but I know that I'm a baby cave diver and I now have self-imposed limits -- I don't deliberately go into zero-viz passage and I wuss out in passages with a tiny bit of percolation. I know that deliberately going through passages which are going to be zero-viz exits is a stressor that I don't need right now until I get some more experience (and there is lots of good viz passage that I haven't seen so far).

And there isn't a whole lot to be done about individual differences. If someone has a "jesus take the wheel" approach to crisis, they shouldn't be cave/technical diving. Instructors may be able to weed those divers out, and there's a role there for the GI3 "rule #1" if you come across people like that who are cave diving.

 

[Slamfire]

And I think you and DA are reading my training and rules statements like that is all I'm saying you need to do. I never said that is it, and never said that all you have to do is get the training and follow the rules and you'll be safe -- that would be an idiotic statement.

Not at all. Remember that I did give you credit for saying "will help" and not saying "will cure". I'll say it for a 3rd time, I agree with what you are saying. I just thought that, until this last post, you were omitting a very important aspect that should, IMO, definitely be brought into light. In my replies to your posts I try to bring that aspect into light.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

And I think you and DA are reading my training and rules statements like that is all I'm saying you need to do.

Not at all, just wanted to flesh out the other stuff that comes into play.

If someone has a "Jesus take the wheel" approach to crisis, they shouldn't be cave/technical diving.

I want to use that as a sig line.

Someone should start a Jeff Foxworthy'esque "If you _____, you might not be a cave/technical diver" thread.

 

[lobstah]

Are some people just more prone to keep their cool or can the panic response be trained into a diver so that they react in a calm and rational manner to extreme stress?

Both. Just like some people are slower runners, some people are more prone to panic. Just like you can train yourself to run faster, repeated exposure to stressful situations where you actually succeed, will build up your confidence and calm.

Should this be part of tech training?

It should and it is. Airgun and closed valves make wonders.

Do any instructors try to train for this?

This SOP in all GUE and UTD tech/cave classes.

Has anyone been in a panic or near panic situation?

Yup. Got nasty CO2 buildup to the point where I had to stop and squish thoughts about bolting to the surface.