Paint Ball Mini Gauge for Pony Regulator

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When did a paintball gauge become a SPG? That is my point. It is not designed for being submerised. If the Bourdon tube fails, air is released. Air is released, water enters the systems.

Again, I am not an expert. But not something I would do or recommend. A pony gauge costs what? 19 to 50 USD?

Thank you for the link and education.
 
When did a paintball gauge become a SPG? That is my point. It is not designed for being submerised. If the Bourdon tube fails, air is released. Air is released, water enters the systems.
Please explain to me how the bourdon tube mechanism inside a paintball gauge is any different from the bourdon tube inside a small SPG designed for a pony reg. Please note that I'm asking specifically about the bourdon tube and not the outer case. Herein lies the point that awap and UaVaj are making.
 
The principle of the two are the same, however the paintball gauge allows saltwater into contact with the Bourdon. The SPG does not allow this. It is an enclosed system protected from pressure changes.

Take the balloon for example. You add air, it inflates. You release air, it deflates. Now, you exert a large pressure against that balloon. The internal parts surrounding that balloon no longer allow it to expand the way it was designed, allowing a fatigue point. This fatigue point does not exist in the submersible gauge.

Thanks again.
 
I've done a lot of experimenting - taking things down that wasn't designed for the environment.

And yeah, I wouldn't put my life at risk either...

But I think the point that Awap and UaVaj are making is that failure of a button gauge should NOT pose a threat to one's life. Sure, the paintball button gauge may fail, but:

1. The failure mode is such that possible signs can be detected long before it actually fails.
2. Loss of the gauge during the dive would not be considered a catastrophic failure.

Summary: the gauge might fail in the long run, but then again, so do a lot of things designed for use underwater. Heck, I'd give it a try.
 
Take the balloon for example. You add air, it inflates. You release air, it deflates. Now, you exert a large pressure against that balloon. The internal parts surrounding that balloon no longer allow it to expand the way it was designed, allowing a fatigue point. This fatigue point does not exist in the submersible gauge.
@Chris12day: I'd like to point out that there are no "internal parts surrounding the balloon that no longer allow it to expand the way it was designed." There's just the pressure exerted on the outside of the balloon and the pressure exerted on the inside of the balloon (with the "balloon" representing the bourdon tube).

Indulge me for a minute. On the surface (1 ata), with a high pressure system like a scuba tank connected to the bourdon tube/balloon, a balloon will burst when the pressure inside the tank is increased high enough so that the elasticity of the rubber fibers in the balloon is exceeded. Let's define this as the balloon burst pressure of the tank for a given ambient pressure, which in this case is 1 ata. Put simply, the balloon pops at the burst pressure. If the ambient pressure (pressure outside the balloon) is increased (as would happen during a dive), how would this affect the balloon burst pressure of the tank? Is it higher, lower, or unchanged?
 
Bubbletrubble:

My point was that the paintball gauge will fail, and while it probably won't allow water to enter the regulator, I don't want the one item that tells me how much air I have remaining in my emergency air source to break so readily and I can't tell how much gas I have left. While it's not a problem for myself so much as I sling an AL40 at conservative recreational depths (60 feet or less) for those with smaller ponies or long swims to the upline that could create an issue.

I appreciate the fact that failure of anything at anytime can happen, so I minimize chances for equipment failure by using the right tool for the right job, not half-assing it by using substandard equipment. This especially applies to my emergency equipment.

Peace,
Greg
 
@kanonfodr: I wasn't addressing you with my questions, but I completely understand your position. Assuming that the paintball gauge is not sealed or inadequately sealed, salt water will infiltrate it and over time will cause corrosion inside. Others pointed out that if the pressure-sensing mechanism is the same as that of a scuba SPG, then upon flooding at depth the worst case scenario ("failure" mode) is that this will cause the diver to have an inaccurate pressure reading on his pony tank. We all can agree that we should have accurate SPGs showing tank pressure...but that's not what's being argued here.

Would using the paintball gauge on a pony reg for one dive place a diver in any immediate danger? The answer is "no."

If given a choice between using a paintball gauge on a pony reg or a proper scuba SPG, which one would divers choose? I think all of us would choose the scuba SPG. It's the most sensible, long-term choice considering issues of accuracy and corrosion.

I think there's more common ground here than all of us are admitting.
 
... I don't want the one item that tells me how much air I have remaining in my emergency air source to break so readily and I can't tell how much gas I have left. While it's not a problem for myself so much as I sling an AL40 at conservative recreational depths (60 feet or less) for those with smaller ponies or long swims to the upline that could create an issue. ...

When do you need to know how much air is in your emergency air source?

At the beginning of the dive. Check it with your main reg, then put on a reg without an SPG at all, and it will still work fine.

Once you are in an emergency situation, knowing your remaining air supply is really just an exercise in futility. If you run out before you reach the surface, you are dead, whether you have a gauge or not.

Granted, an SPG on emergency tanks is nice, but I am not certain they are a necessity. Not too long ago, a lot of divers didn't put a gauge on their deco gas. They checked it before the dive and once they were on deco, watching a gauge doesn't help you have any more gas.

Furthermore, an emergency gas supply should be as failure proof as possible, and any SPG is an additional failure point. :D

(granted, knowing your remaining gas in an emergency can be useful in some situations, in many OW, non deco situations, I don't think it is necessary. Please do not base my post on your own personal emergency gear configurations, I'm just playing devil's advocate. Do what your instructor taught you was safe.)
 
When do you need to know how much air is in your emergency air source?

At the beginning of the dive. Check it with your main reg, then put on a reg without an SPG at all, and it will still work fine.

I frequently practice with my pony by draining my backgas to rock bottom, switching to pony, then making my ascent. While it goes against the grain of "Emergency Use Only" I feel that by repeatedly deploying my pony under fairly mundane conditions I will be able to do it better when the situation really calls for it. It also allows me to track my gas consumption on the ascent, ensuring I have enough pony for my needs.

Once you are in an emergency situation, knowing your remaining air supply is really just an exercise in futility. If you run out before you reach the surface, you are dead, whether you have a gauge or not.

Very true, depending on how much bailout you are carrying. But let's say that we have a minor deco obligation or, in my case, multiple stops along the way. If I know my remaining gas I can decide whether to make all my stops, skip a few, or do a direct ascent and hope for the best.

Granted, an SPG on emergency tanks is nice, but I am not certain they are a necessity. Not too long ago, a lot of divers didn't put a gauge on their deco gas. They checked it before the dive and once they were on deco, watching a gauge doesn't help you have any more gas.

Once again you are correct in that it does not give you any more gas, but if for some reason a diver is breathing heavier (or lighter) than usual, they can adjust their profile. Also, in the case of deco bottles (not deco trained, so this is simply speculation on my part) if one diver lost their deco bottle then he could possibly share the bottle ala buddy breathing with his teammate, if they knew how much gas was remaining in the tank along with their air consumptions and deco obligation.

Furthermore, an emergency gas supply should be as failure proof as possible, and any SPG is an additional failure point. :D

No real argument for that one, save for choosing your equipment wisely (in my case, an OMS 2" brass and glass SPG on a 6" rubber HP Hose, the same way many tech divers do it on their stages/decos). It's give and take, I trade a possible failure point for knowing my remaining emergency gas.

(granted, knowing your remaining gas in an emergency can be useful in some situations, in many OW, non deco situations, I don't think it is necessary. Please do not base my post on your own personal emergency gear configurations, I'm just playing devil's advocate. Do what your instructor taught you was safe.)

LOL, I've had practically no instruction on pony bottles, save for what I have gleaned from SB and other sources. You can do it your way, I'll do it my way, it's your emergency gas source. Do whatever gives you a warm and fuzzy, even if that means giving your bottle a fleece liner to keep it warm and fuzzy ;) . I'll keep mine a Silver Bullet, please.

Peace,
Greg
 
I frequently practice with my pony by draining my backgas to rock bottom, switching to pony, then making my ascent. While it goes against the grain of "Emergency Use Only" I feel that by repeatedly deploying my pony under fairly mundane conditions I will be able to do it better when the situation really calls for it. It also allows me to track my gas consumption on the ascent, ensuring I have enough pony for my needs.

You could also do this by checking the pressure at the beginning and end of your dives.


Very true, depending on how much bailout you are carrying. But let's say that we have a minor deco obligation or, in my case, multiple stops along the way. If I know my remaining gas I can decide whether to make all my stops, skip a few, or do a direct ascent and hope for the best.

You are in the Basic Diver forum, which means threads should not consider things such as decompression obligations when determining what awful things can happen to divers. If we were in the technical forums, and people were asking about bailout gasses, I would agree that a gauge is a good thing. I would also get frustrated if a technical diver used a "pony." :D

Once again you are correct in that it does not give you any more gas, but if for some reason a diver is breathing heavier (or lighter) than usual, they can adjust their profile. Also, in the case of deco bottles (not deco trained, so this is simply speculation on my part) if one diver lost their deco bottle then he could possibly share the bottle ala buddy breathing with his teammate, if they knew how much gas was remaining in the tank along with their air consumptions and deco obligation.

Once we are in an emergency, there are no real profile adjustments that need to be made. Breathing heavier than normal? Head to the surface. Breathing lighter than normal? Head to the surface. Whenever you are on a pony bottle, you should be heading to the surface in a straight line at a safe ascent rate. Profile adjustments can be made when on backgas and I don't think any of us would advocate using a paintball gauge on backgas, or diving without a gauge on backgas. Unless that is, the user has a J valve. (actually, I was just kidding, and wanted to make that perfectly clear :D)

Secondly, we are talking about a pony bottle, not a deco bottle. If we were talking about a deco bottle, then different people have different planning rules. Some would use a gauge and each diver would get half the bottle. Others would have the diver with a bottle breathe until his stops were done, then leave whatever is left for the out of luck diver. Then, a gauge comes in handy, but once again, we are not talking about deco bottles so none of my logic has been tailored for deco bottles.


No real argument for that one, save for choosing your equipment wisely (in my case, an OMS 2" brass and glass SPG on a 6" rubber HP Hose, the same way many tech divers do it on their stages/decos). It's give and take, I trade a possible failure point for knowing my remaining emergency gas.

And in actuality, there are few failure points. Anything that leaks onthe HP side will tend to lose gas much more slowly than a leak on the LP side due to the fact that the HP output on the reg is a tiny little hole. I've gone on dives knowing my HP spool is leaking a tiny bit, I just kept an eye on it and followed gas planning rules and what do you know, I survived :) So yes, personally, I like to know all of my remaining gasses.


LOL, I've had practically no instruction on pony bottles, save for what I have gleaned from SB and other sources. You can do it your way, I'll do it my way, it's your emergency gas source. Do whatever gives you a warm and fuzzy, even if that means giving your bottle a fleece liner to keep it warm and fuzzy ;) . I'll keep mine a Silver Bullet, please.

My deco bottle is yellow :( All the other technical divers with their Silver Bullets laugh at me...(but I got it cheap on Craigslist...)

Peace,
Greg

I think at the end of the day, we should all use Spare Air style guages on our emergency cylinders. After all, it's good enough for cave divers,

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