PADI?

[boulderjohn]

Many people mistakenly believe a prohibition on agency bashing prevents people from criticizing agencies, That is not true. So how does agency bashing (not allowed) differ from agency criticism (allowed)? here is how I considered the difference when I was on staff.

Agency bashing makes mindless attacks unsupported by factual information.

• Agency ABC's name means "Always Buy our Crap"
• The leadership of ABC is filled with money-grubbing slugs.
• Every time ABC published new standards, they are just lowering the bar again.
• Anyone with a certification from ABC is a potential scuba fatality.

Agency criticism draws conclusions from factual information.

• ABC charges instructors twice as much as most other agencies to process certifications.
• ABC removed buddy breathing from its curriculum several years ago, and I believe that is a mistake because it is a potential life-saving skill.
• ABC does not allow instructors to teach introductory skills while neutrally buoyant, which I believe to be a superior technique.
• Here is a list of all 58 instructors from ABC three years ago. From that list, only 5 are still active. That is an indication of a problem.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

If they are so dopey, i wonder why people keep buying them? Is your problem PADI, or that PADI is simply providing what people want?

Really good marketing. I'm not kidding when I say PADI's marketing should be studied in business schools.

 

[boulderjohn]

t's not true because I'm saying it, I'm saying it..... because it's true. Big difference

So if you say something is true without offering any iota of evidence, the big difference is that you say it is true with italics. I think I understand now. If I offer an opinion in plain type, it is just an opinion. If I put it in italics, it has to be true. Do I have that right?

So, in your opinion, PADI has made up worthless specialties. In other people's opinion, they are courses worthy of taking and paying for. How is one to tell the difference?

 

[boulderjohn]

By the way, I am still waiting for you to provide the list of agencies that do not provide a variety of courses for interested students.

I will save you some time in your search. This is from NAUI's website:

NAUI training continues far beyond the basics! NAUI Instructors teach a wide range of specialized types of diving. Courses include underwater archaeology, rescue training, night diving, deep diving, digital imaging, search & recovery, public safety diving, and much more. Just about any area of underwater interest is taught in a NAUI Specialty course. Join the fun and continue diving today!​

 

[ofg-1]

.
I think I made my case.

Well, that makes at least one person who thinks so..

Since you were dredging around on their website, you probably also saw where they issue about a million certifications a year worldwide, thats about 2 per minute. In the time it took you to look at their website, then bitch about it, they probably issued 30-40 certifications. You just keep bitching, I am sure they will change their evil ways.

 

[Cert1967]

Why don't you folks like PADI - after all, they are the dominant player in the market, right?

PADI seems to be quite successful. An instructor would seem to be able to maximize their income by associating with the market leader?

PADI trains more divers than most other agencies combined (or so someone told me)? Anyhow, who's like Avis - Number Two in dive training?

Just because a business is a dominant player in the market doesn't mean it will continue to be. Think about GM and Ford.

So, PADI must be killin it? Their signs hang over most dive shops? Lots of folks voting with their pocketbooks. Its their money, surely they can spend it where they see the best value for their hard earned dollars?

Once in awhile a competitor emerges that upsets the market - usually with a better product. Think about Tesla.

Every day many more new divers vote with their wallets to train with PADI, than other groups. Maybe they are stupid?

At the same time, more shops chose to offer PADI courses. Why would they over inferior training? Are they fools? After all they are pros, sell life-support equipment - shouldn't they know best?

Maybe the alternatives to PADI aren't as disruptive as Tesla? Or as good as Tesla?

Why aren't the folks choosing an agency other than PADI?

Over time, the consumer usually makes purchase decisions that sort the market.

How about this fellow, platinum-certified - better than gold - and some sort of director for PADI ... and his video? Looks like it covers just about everything a new diver would need to know, hey? What more could a new diver want!

PADI Open Water Diver Course Skills finally all together performed at Open Water Diver Student Level. The PADI Open Water Diver course is the most popular scuba diving course in the world, and with millions of people taking the PADI Open Water Diver course worldwide, we thought to bring you the ultimate YouTube video showing how all PADI Open Water Diver course skills are conducted from a perfect student level.
<<>>
The PADI Open Water Diver course is not just the most popular course in the world, it is also one of the most fun scuba diving experiences that you can have in your life.

Marcel van den Berg
PADI Platinum Course Director
Scuba Diving Tips

 

[johndiver999]

Selling superfluous certifications to willing adults (who may be looking for a somewhat safer means to expand their recreational pursuits) doesn't cause me to bat an eye.

However, the comment that a public safety diver training course has a pre-requisite of just 4 dives surprises me.

 

[jonhall]

Please, go to PADI's website, and scroll through the list of specialties, and the paltry qualifications they require to get them (and then go sift through the pages of all the other stuff they sell.

You can definitely substitute SSI, SDI, NAUI (as @boulderjohn has indicated), and most likely several others in place of PADI in your statement and find the same thing. I'm not seeing what makes PADI so special for you.

Although these organizations may show a lot of specialties on their website, it doesn't mean one can just go anywhere and take it. I would think there have been many divers who have been disappointed that they couldn't take a specialty in the area they live or have traveled to.

They teach a "Public Safety Diver" course, as a PADI specialty, with only 4 dives !! Did you get that ? PADI has people walking around with a cert card that says they're a Public Safety Diver !!!!!!!

PADI is also not the only organization to teach this particular specialty. You write as if PADI is the only organization offering these specialties, which of course isn't the case. It seems to me people simply choose PADI to get that particular c-card. Who cares where it comes from?

How about the hundred different t-shirts marketed to kids

You must really have a lot of shade to throw at Disney!

I, for one, am glad that there is a PADI and other scuba organizations such as those mentioned above. I don't have a problem with any of them and, as a consumer for the type of products they offer, would take what was most convenient for me - if I had any interest in taking a course.

I found myself this past fall/winter entertaining the thought of taking a specialty. We had a land/cruise trip scheduled to Alaska at the end of this month and I thought about trying to schedule a dive just so I could say I dove there. I looked into taking the dry suit specialty. In my area, I can find PADI, SSI, SDI/TDI that offer it. The cost for PADI is $150 - more than the $135 and less than the $195 of the other groups. The competition surely helps with pricing of products offered - like health insurance. I decided I didn't want to go through a course for a likely one-time ever dive - probably would have been bummed had I taken it as the trip was, of course, cancelled.

 

[Edward3c]

So, to summarize, PADI is making up specialties out of thin air, that are either almost useless,(Underwater Naturalist, Project Aware Specialist, etc.), or are serious enough (wreck, cavern, sidemount, search and rescue, ice diving,etc.) that they need to be taught as legitimate classes by qualified instructors, not as casual intro-courses to inexperienced open water divers, as they often are.
(Apologies for the long post, but you did ask for "examples and facts". )

I witnessed someone asking for a ‘teeth cleaning’ certification. Even after it was explained such a certification didn’t exist, but if they were prepared to pay for it they could be assessed and one would duly be provided. Was this PADI’s fault? No. The individual who wanted that particular certification, the instructor could have been from a number of different agencies, the result would be the same. I have no issue with PADI, without them thousands of people would not have got into diving. So no you haven’t provided any “examples and facts”, just your prejudice.

Just because a course only has 4 dives, you cite the PSD, doesn’t mean it’s doesn’t meet the requirements. Most skills for a PSD will involve activities topside. BSAC’s Advanced Diver course has only 2 open water lessons, it still takes candidates years to get the diver grade because of all the none formal criteria and topside skills and competences.

 

[Miyaru]

It's not true because I'm saying it, I'm saying it..... because it's true. Big difference.
....

If I send you 7 PADI shirts, will you wear one everyday?