PADI vs SDI

[Don Wray]

I hope you do not teach this.

Because if you do the math, then 100 / 30 = 3 mins to ascend from 100 fsw/ffw.

How many people do you know that can stay conscious for 3 mins on a single breath of air? Can you?? Ever tried it yourself???

But not to hijack the thread on this trivia, the OP was asking about a comparison between SDI and PADI. ESA/CESA would certainly be taught in both. So the ESA/CESA issue would not be relevant.

Archaic dive tables versus modern dive computers, and the time and effort spent learning each, is a more relevant issue for the O/P.

You still haven't answered what you do when your on a live aboard, way out at sea, your computer craps out and you don't know how to work the tables. E=MC2 is archaic also, but it still works. There is absolutely nothing in the tables that is that difficult to learn nor is it archaic, it's theoretical science.

 

[nereas]

You still haven't answered what you do when your on a live aboard, way out at sea, your computer craps out and you don't know how to work the tables. E=MC2 is archaic also, but it still works. There is absolutely nothing in the tables that is that difficult to learn nor is it archaic, it's theoretical science.

Anytime I go diving, I always bring my NitekHE and my Suunto with me. And I normally dive with them both, since I love them both. And between the two of them, I can dive any mix to any depth for any time, limited only by my available gasses.

Whether lake diving, lake diving at altitude, beach diving, boat diving, or live-aboard diving, with a good computer, or 2, life is always good!

Tables are an inefficient backup, since they are easily misplaced or lost as well.

And tables are are difficult for students to learn. Dive computers coupled with modern deco software are the cutting edge in the modern age.

You are simply not thinking about modern tools, and therefore your mind is stuck in the ancient past.

And this is precisely why SDI is the most cutting edge agency for basic open water scuba training.

 

[Don Wray]

It's not me I'm thinking about and appearantly not you as you are prepared with redundancy. Most divers are vacation divers who don't have a second computer, don't think about the what if's. I'm sure you can work the tables but the students we get for the most part dive once a year, come in for a refresher once a year, and we go over the tables once a year. We also go over which ever computer they are using, once a year. I can assure you I also have 2 computers with me when I go on a long trip, have both with me from day 1 while diving, but I can work the tables and the wheel if I need to. As String said, it would be hard for most folks to work the wheel at depth, but with proper planning with the wheel, and a good timing device, I can do a multilevel dive if my computers crap out. What's wrong with knowing that? I am not arguing against SDI, or anyone else, I just think there is nothing wrong with additional redundancy. You are, however, entitled to your opinion.

 

[lowwall]

Mine is PADI which i've always heard is the most reputable.

The only thing that PADI is notably superior at is marketing. Which is not to say there is anything they are inferior at either. In truth, there are no important differences between the agencies at the OW level, they all teach to exactly the same standards.

In 1987 several of the largest US certification agencies got together and formed the Recreational Scuba Training Council (RSTC) to set standards for beginning dive training in order to mitigate the agencies' liability risk. The standards have been quite effective in accomplishing their goal and so today are used by all the major agencies that certify OW courses - even the ones that do not belong to the RSTC (NAUI doesn't; PADI, IDEA, SDI, SSI, PDIC and the YMCA do) - because the RSTC standards were adopted by ANSI. Indeed the RSTC is the body in charge of the ANSI committee for setting standards for basic scuba training safety. It's not a legal requirement for US agencies to conform to applicable ANSI standards, but it would be essentially impossible for them to get insurance if they didn't.

The thing about standards is that they are, well, standard. If you require something that is not in the standards then you are just as much in violation of the standards as if you requiring something less. And no one wants to violate the standards. Ask an instructor and I'm sure they'll tell you at some point in their training they were told, "Well it doesn't matter if it makes sense, it's in the standard, so teach it the way it's written or you'll be on your own if you get sued."

That said, however handcuffed to standards the agencies and instructors may be, there's nothing to stop an instructor from taking extra time teaching once the standards have been met. So PADI considers the RSTC buoyancy standard to be met if a student can do a fin pivot (right?), but once that's done instructors could spend an hour working on mid-water hovering if they can get students to pay for the time. This is why you have so many posts suggesting you focus on the instructor rather than the certification agency. What instructors can't do is refuse to certify a student who can't master skills that are beyond the standard.

 

[MBH]

I can't stand it anymore. My OW cert is with SDI and I was REQUIRED to be proficient with the use of tables and then demonstrate that proficiency during the written examination. Figuring out my dive computer was as big of a no brainer as learning how to use different dive tables. Come test time I knew more about my dive computer than the instructor who sold it to me. That very expensive hockey puck now stays clipped off in my pocket and its SOLE purpose is to log my dive profiles for download to my PC.

I don't understand how someone could say that tables are an inefficient back up. I use the minimum deco tables as my primary method for calculating my dives- keep two copys in my wet notes and a spare copy in my right pocket. I wouldn't call myself a diver if I couldn't use a set of tables. Jeez, even the USN air deco tables are easy to use.

Personally I have no love for SDI or PADI, but I suspect that either would be fine for an OW certification. I personally believe that a newly certified OW diver will leave either class with what THEY bring to the table.

That's my 3442 psi.

My work is done here. I'm now off to straighten out the "splits vs paddle" crowd.

 

[Papa_Bear]

Here is why it doesn't matter! Your on a live aboard dive boat and it is your 3rd day, now your on your third dive of the day at 100fsw and your computer dies! Now what? You going to do the tables in your head? You going to carry them and sit down on a coral head and figure out whats up? Are you going to make a safe accent to the hag bar and do 5 minutes instead of 3? At a hundred feet some couldn't add three numbers let along do tables! So carry a back up hockey Puck and do a little extra on the hang bar. The Puck has been with you you're back in business! First diving is pretty simple these days within rec limits and all agencies want you, they want your dollar, so be a part of all of them and stop criticizing each one of them! Capitalism has a way of weeding out the weak! There is good and bad in all of them because they are us!

 

[MBH]

That's horse dookie Papa_Bear. One should know what their profile limits are BEFORE they make that third dive, and also know their first deco obligation if they should exceed it by a few minutes.

There's no reason for anyone to be narked at 100'. 32% is just too easy to get these days.

If Jethro Bodine can learn how to do naughts, times's, and gazindas without sitting on a coral head...well...shouldn't we???

 

[Papa_Bear]

That's horse dookie Papa_Bear. One should know what their profile limits are BEFORE they make that third dive, and also know their first deco obligation if they should exceed it by a few minutes.

There's no reason for anyone to be narked at 100'. 32% is just too easy to get these days.

If Jethro Bodine can learn how to do naughts, times's, and gazindas without sitting on a coral head...well...shouldn't we???

But they don't and won't! That's real life! Narcosis is a personal thing dependent on psychology differences! I have seen more than one person that was narced at 80ft and some knew it and others didn't! Jethro was in the cement pond not hanging on a 3000ft wall at 4ata! I would trust my life to your theory, but that's not my point to my post! No agency wants you to die and they are all the same based on their instructors! The only thing a C-card does is relieve the Air provider of Liability!

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Tables vs. Computers

Are we arguing about teaching Haldanean tables and computers in the age of bubble models? While having the tools and the knowledge to use tables is a great idea, it's also a great idea to teach students that some deco theory makes less sense than other deco theory. While all deco theory is just theory, it makes sense to slow ascents and reduce gradients and a good instructor (regardless of agency) will teach students all about decompression, the theories, the models, and educate the student about strategies to avoid DCS.

PADI vs. SDI:

Instructors make the difference not the agency. And, yes, I know excellent PADI instructors and excellent SDI instructors and some of these excellent instructors are both.

But, please, by all means continue...

I really just wanted an excuse to use emoticons anyway.

 

[MBH]

But they don't and won't! That's real life!

Yep, You are very accurate in that observation. I'll be back after the tornado damage has been determined.