PADI vs NAUI

[japan-diver]

Being a NAUI CD I am a bit bias to them but the additional cost of being cross certified is only about $150 as you only need one insurance policy- just make sure its one that covers both agencies there are many. If you want to teach with your friends shop a crossover to teach should be an easy step. Having done many crossovers for PADI instructors I do find that most have to study up on physics and environment (review the NAUI Master Scuba Diver Text) as they do poorly on this part of the exam as its covered in more detail than PADI.

Curious to those that think the training materials for NAUI are lacking - the Scuba Diver/OW kits are some of the best texts books I have seen and the new online stuff is great. As will all things I can see some room for improvement but I find them much better and more student friendly than the PADI ones (which are not bad but could do with less ads). (The advanced book is lacking in a big way I do admit). Rescue, Master and Nitrox I think are very good. I have not reviewed the new Rescue course on line yet so can not speak to that.

 

[Peter Guy]

Saxplayer -- It is one thing to write that you can't teach the type of stuff you WANT to teach under PADI and a whole 'nuther thing to say you can't teach a PADI course in a semester. I have no problem with your course including so many different things but it just isn't right to say what you did.

BTW, you are correct that, within PADI, you can't teach AOW before you teach OW -- but why would you want to? There is nothing to prevent one from teaching an OW class with Dry Suit and then EAN and then AOW -- all in a row and, to some extent, overlapping.

 

[divermike1011]

I cannot comment on the merits of PADI versus NAUI as I am relatively new to the professional side and I don't know a damn thing about NAUI except what I've read here on SB. What I can comment on is that unless there is a new NAUI shop out here at the end of the world you may want to ask around whether the particular shop is worth working for. I've heard rumblings about the NAUI operation out here, and am more then happy to discuss them via PM with the OP if he wants. On this island I think staying PADI gives more opportunities as employment goes.

All of the above thoughts apply only to the dive industry as I see it here on our fair isle, so please don't think I am bashing NAUI as a whole, I can't because I don't know a damn thing about them.

Michael

 

[Blu Diver]

NAUI allows the instructor to add various skills to the course. PADI has a very rigid outline that you must follow. NAUI will challenge students more (depending on the instructor) due to the open syllabus. Such as doing the Bail Out* in the pool during the OW class. PADI has better multimedia teaching selection. PADI is a For Profit organization, NAUI is a Non-profit organization. This would help explain why you hear more about PADI than NAUI. NAUI is a combination of WHY& HOW. NAUI believes in "Saftey though education." As a matter of fact in NAUI's Standards & Policies. They ask the instructor, would you allow this person to dive with your loved ones? In other words, you can pay for the course, pass all of the exams and possibly not pass the course! With that being said, you will know this well in advance and will not come as a surprise! NAUI is a little more "old School" than PADI. Up till only 5-6 years ago an instructor could teach you how to breathe off a tank. What about buddy breathing? Turning out a well trainined diver falls directly on the instructor and not the agency. However, if the instructor is given the opportunity to expand the course and mix in different skills. This could greatly enhance ones learning experience and produce a safer more educated diver.

Bail Out: You have your rig set up, the tank turned off and regs purged. With your mask, fins and snorkel on your arm and weight belt drapped across you chest. You jump into the water and start a slow constant exhale as soon as you splash into the water, do so until you hit the bottom. Once on the bottom you crack open the tank breathe off the regs and don your equipment. Once the equipment is on and correctly fastened and mask cleared you are then ready to surface to be inspected. If at any point you loose your gear underwater or break the surface before completing the skill or failed to completely clear the mask. You must do it over again.

This exercise encompasses everything you have learned in the class. It's a stressful exercise that may take a few attempts to accomplish. How would you react as a novice diver when faced with a stressful event underwater? This skill will challenge you and you will learn to overcome and handle the situation. This is one skill that is optional, the instructor is not obligated to have this as part of his OW course.

BSAC 1953
LA County SCUBA 1954
NAUI 1959
YMCA Scuba Program 1959
PADI 1966

 

[Peter Guy]

Several people have brought up that PADI is a "for-profit" corporation while "NAUI" is a "not-for-profit" corporation -- as if that makes any difference in the quality of the instruction or instructors.

As far as I know, neither PADI nor NAUI actually teach Scuba diving and in particular, neither teaches an Open Water Class. The actual classes are taught by Instructors who, as far as I know, are ALL "for-profit" instructors (not that there is any profit in scuba instruction, but THAT is another story). Also, as far as I can tell, both PADI and NAUI (and all the other agencies, again, as far as I can tell) encourage their instructors to teach and to certify qualified students as "graduates" within the Agency structure.

What is wrong with that?

And what difference does it make that one Agency has a structure that means its corporate shareholders, along with the operating officials, may earn some money from the certifications and materials produced and sold while another agency has a structure where the operating officials may earn some money from the certifications and materials produced and sold. All agencies have to earn money from their operations in order to continue operating whether they are "for-profit" or "not-for-profit" -- they still have office staff, production staff, overhead, etc. for which revenue must be generated and the bills paid. There is ALWAYS a motive from the Agency to produce revenue because only from revenue can bills be paid AND new programs, new materials, etc. be created.

Every Agency can be criticized for one thing or another but their corporate status should be irrelevant.

 

[tbone1004]

The problem with that is I have to take them to open water more than once, which is a problem with college students because gear rental is expensive. It means my weekends are eaten up or they miss classes because of it. The school can't do that, and they'd get bored doing nothing but buoyancy drills over the course of a whole semester. You just can't stretch one out so long. It's nothing against them but when you are spoiled with near unlimited pool time we can do that. We also have no obligation to certify, and no instructor technically does, but when people shell out that kind of cash for a course and don't get certified they tend to get irritated. It's just easier for us to do it that way.

Right now our open water looks like this
Dive 1- follow leader out to a bus for skills checklist, follow back to dock
Dive 2- reciprocal navigation to 4 different stations
Day 2, Dive 3-Navigational Circuit with diver 1 leading
Dive 4-Nav circuit with diver 2 leading.
For the second day once they're down they don't see any instructors or babysitters until they come back up. We're tailling them but they are on their own.

Most PADI divers we have come in have never done any navigation or if they did it was quick reciprocal stuff in a pool. None of them have done any real navigation. It's not a problem or a bad thing, but I don't feel comfortable certifying divers that can't navigate underwater properly. In the real world they have to be able to dive on their own without dive masters and playing follow the leader on all 4 dives doesn't help them to do that. I guess it's old school way of thought

 

[Blu Diver]

I don't recall anyone failing a course. I have known folks to repeat a portion of the pool work or be tutored on some class work. I have witnessed an OW student to drop out after struggling for a long time even after working with him one on one. Which eventually the truth came out, he was attempting to use scuba to overcome his fear of water due to a near drowning incident when he was a child.... Which I would applaud him for being honest with himself and that scuba is NOT for everyone.

The PADI vs NAUI argument has been going on for a VERY VERY long time. I wish I could combine the two really. I like PADI although I prefer NAUI. I feel that NAUI needs to step up a little, update their website to be more competitive with PADI, update their multimedia stuff etc... NAUI doen't even have a Facebook page...? LOL Not that a FB page is a big deal, just catch up with the times a little bit thats all.

 

[LakeCountyDiver]

What is wrong with that?

And what difference does it make that one Agency has a structure that means its corporate shareholders, along with the operating officials, may earn some money from the certifications and materials produced and sold while another agency has a structure where the operating officials may earn some money from the certifications and materials produced and sold. All agencies have to earn money from their operations in order to continue operating whether they are "for-profit" or "not-for-profit" -- they still have office staff, production staff, overhead, etc. for which revenue must be generated and the bills paid. There is ALWAYS a motive from the Agency to produce revenue because only from revenue can bills be paid AND new programs, new materials, etc. be created.

Every Agency can be criticized for one thing or another but their corporate status should be irrelevant.

I think this may have to do with the fact that many NAUI CD's will not train an instructor if he does not meet up with the requirments. Like it or not the requirments are held to a higher standard then PADI. I have been "told" that the training from one agency is much harder then the other when you do not do a Cross over but rather do it from OW on up.

Whats wrong with that you ask well PADI is huge and known all over the world because of mainly its advertisement. PADI is a "for-profit" and with that they have a much higher overhead cost with the advertisement/Promotional costs then say NAUI. They NEED more instructors to teach MORE OW classes and the million specialties to support there agency. They make the money off the class material (books,c-cards,ect.ect.).

As you said there is good and bad you can say in every agency. I know some pretty sh!tty NAUI instructors now I am not saying they are all good. It is just that NAUI has proved that they really care about the education over the numbers and not so much the other way around on the instructor/corporate level. After that it is up to the instructor as to what kind of diver he will deliver to the community.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

A few months ago I would have been right in the thick of this discussion spouting about one thing or another. But in the process of writing my book I received a great deal of wisdom and guidance from some very respected quarters. Dan Orr took a great deal of time with me. As a result something changed in me.

At 51 years old now I decided to grow up just a little. Rather than say someone sucks I now am choosing to just stick to what I do and what standards I teach to and allow the reader to do their own comparisons. Will I still slip back now and then? Probably. But I will try to do it while stating what I would, could, or must do in the same situation.

This is what I would say that some here on SB might consider. State what you do, and why. If you have to make a comparison do so with the facts. I have standards for 6 different agencies. It wasn't that hard or expensive to get them. I can look at PADI, NAUI, SDI, CMAS, SEI, IANTD, and the old YMCA program and compare their standards in writing. I can call a NAUI CD, SDI Training director, PADI CD, etc and ask them straight out what I want to know. So if you want to know the difference in programs go to the source.

Go to a NAUI shop and ask to see the standards or a PADI shop and do the same. Anyone should be able to go to any instructor and ask to see the standards they teach to or should teach to. I actually encourage my students to look at the the materials and compare them.

 

[Walter]

Blu Diver, NAUI started in 1960, not 1954.