PADI v SSI...emergency OOA procedures

[sdiver68]

Those who've read my other thread in this section know I'm training for my OW Cert essentially twice in a short period of time. Once with PADI and now with SSI. There have been many subtle differences in the academics, but this 1 has me puzzled.

PADI OOA ascent options in order:
1) Normal ascent
2) Buddy Alternate Air
3) CESA
4) Buddy Shared Breathing
5) Buoyant

PADI stresses this order not only in the book, but with the quiz and tests.

However, SSI essentially teaches to choose Buoyant over CESA if you aren't 100% sure of the CESA. They also go into much more detail about how to go Bouyant by dropping weights, controlling your ascent rate with the BCD, and then "flaring" the last 20 feet.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

you might want to ask a question; or not

 

[sdiver68]

you might want to ask a question; or not

Sorry.

Which one is more advisable, the PADI teaching or those of SSI? And why would 2 equally respected (+/-) organizations be teaching 2 different emergency procedures? Or are they not really different but the difference is so far lost on me?

 

[azchipka]

Well first off PADI has now removed the Buddy Breathing procedure from training. It just hasn't been removed from the books and tests yet, but it is no longer taught in the course.

Regarding the difference between Buoyant and CESA I would say its really just a difference in the idea of what is best. Neither is really better then the other. Both have a huge amount of downfalls.

Best practice is not to run out of air to begin with. Once you have finished your training your going to find that if you dive with in your training the likelihood of finding yourself needing to decide between a CESA and buoyant assent is highly unlikely to come up. These procedures are taught as a worst case. If you find yourself having concerns of running out of air then I would suggest adding a bail out bottle to your configuration. This is basically a second small bottle. Normally between 3 cf - 19cf depending on the depths of your dives with its own regulator.

Hope this helps.

 

[Brewski]

However, SSI essentially teaches to choose Buoyant over CESA if you aren't 100% sure of the CESA. They also go into much more detail about how to go Bouyant by dropping weights, controlling your ascent rate with the BCD, and then "flaring" the last 20 feet.

First let me qualify this by saying I don't have any knowledge of SSI's curriculum, as I am a PADI instructor. that being said I'd say the key statement is if your not 100 percent sure.
So I read this as if your in doubt its better to drop your weights and get to the surface, deal with the repercussions of your actions accordingly than it is to drown.

 

[TSandM]

What really ought to have occured to you is to wonder why the agencies feel it necessary to teach so many strategies to deal with an out of air emergency, and why they stress it so hard.

How do you end up out of gas? The most likely reason is you didn't check your pressure as you dove. That's totally preventable. There are VERY rare problems that can land you out of gas through no fault of your own -- freeflows, or dip tube occlusions -- but you are unlikely to suffer one of them (unless you typically dive in very cold water).

How do you end up out of gas with no buddy to share with? You had to fail to check your gauge, exceed your reasonable planned time, AND lose your buddy . . .

What agencies ought to stress, instead of a rigid sequence of OOA options, is a whole curriculum of avoiding out of gas emergencies in the first place, and a whole set of behaviors that will reduce the likelihood of not having a buddy when you need one.

 

[tstormdiver]

I fully agree with your statement about needing to emphasize to students the vital importance of monitoring their gas supply & the whereabouts of their buddy, but I respectfully disagree & feel those emergency proceedures are still important & need to be taught also. SSI stresses several times the importatnce of gas & buddy monitoring in their manual & videos & we as instructors (I would hope of any agency) should certainly back it up & re- emphasize it through the course. SSI puts the OOA proceedures into their cirriculum to cover the "what if's" (what could go wrong) based on past history. Things happen, whether through the diver's own fault or not; & when they happen a diver needs to be prepared to deal with them. Without having been taught emergency proceedures like the OOA skills, how would a diver know what to do if caught in a situation of running out of air & buddy seperation? Sure, it shouldn't happen, but it has happened, it does happen & I'm sure it will happen again. Let's face it, we're all human & we all make mistakes from time to time. Some mistakes are minor & we may get away with,.... & some not so much. The proceedures are there to help cover our rears when we do make those mistakes.

 

[sdiver68]

Best practice is not to run out of air to begin with. Once you have finished your training your going to find that if you dive with in your training the likelihood of finding yourself needing to decide between a CESA and buoyant assent is highly unlikely to come up. These procedures are taught as a worst case. If you find yourself having concerns of running out of air then I would suggest adding a bail out bottle to your configuration. This is basically a second small bottle. Normally between 3 cf - 19cf depending on the depths of your dives with its own regulator.

Hope this helps.

Thanks.

Yes I understand running OOA is 99.999% avoidable and I'm not only equipped with 2 HP ports for an AI computer and backup SPG, but despite the dire warnings of many of this forum have a 3cf spare air. In my younger days I participated in many dangerous sports (i.e. semi-professional motorcycle road racing) and made sure to never skimp on training or safety...which is why I'm able to type this right now.

BTW, at least at 1 of the highly rated PADI dive shops in Cancun, they are still teaching buddy breathing as of December.

 

[SeaLevelScuba]

Those who've read my other thread in this section know I'm training for my OW Cert essentially twice in a short period of time. Once with PADI and now with SSI. There have been many subtle differences in the academics, but this 1 has me puzzled.

PADI OOA ascent options in order:
1) Normal ascent
2) Buddy Alternate Air
3) CESA
4) Buddy Shared Breathing
5) Buoyant

PADI stresses this order not only in the book, but with the quiz and tests.

However, SSI essentially teaches to choose Buoyant over CESA if you aren't 100% sure of the CESA. They also go into much more detail about how to go Bouyant by dropping weights, controlling your ascent rate with the BCD, and then "flaring" the last 20 feet.

Its basically taught the same way in both agencies, what I think is confusing you is the spirit of the wording.
If you are confused or panicked and there is doubt about which ascent to use, ditch your weights and do a buoyant ascent. It is guaranteed to get you to the surface.

It is still a last resort among both agencies, the only difference is that it is required to be physically taught in SSI and not in PADI. As already mentioned, this event should never occur as you should be able to monitor your air supply often in addition to learning good gas management skills as your experience progresses.

Schott

 

[Crowley]

There is some good reasoning behind the order from the PADI perspective, which I find difficult to disagree with - and yes, I am a PADI instrucor:

A buoyant emergency ascent by ditching your weights underwater is classed as a last resort because this will almost inevitably result in a rapid ascent and a visit to the chamber, and if one is breatholding whilst ascending then the consequences might be much worse.

A CESA is preferred over Buddy breathing for the reason that somebody who runs out of air is likely to panic and therefore may not have the presence of mind to perform the training. I've seen peope panic during DM training when they screwed up the buddy breathing skill. It's quite horrifying, and if it has ever happened to you, you will know what I mean!

A CESA on the other hand, gives a fighting chance and if one retains the regulator, the small amount of remaining air in the hoses will enable the diver to take a few breaths as he ascends and the ambient pressure is reduced. The likelihood of a rapid ascent is great, of course, but more control than an emergency buoyant ascent.

That's the reasoning anyway, and I have to say, through experience, I'm inclined to agree.

Check your gauges!!

C.