DivePartner1
Contributor
Otter:
General counsel's office in a professional services firm.
PADI v Diverlink
- Thread starter Walter
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
General counsel's office in a professional services firm.
Congrats Walter, I'm glad this is finally over for both you and Eddie.
Sorry to see there are still folks who object to an open discussion of agency differences. You spent emormous time to do and publish the research. The lawsuit was never about the accuracy of the comparison, just whether or not the public would be able to see the comparison. A different analysis might yield different conclusions, but if the results are gagged, how would we know?!
You were brave to spend the time doing the research and defending its publication. Seems to me that the real trolls are those who badger people just because they don't like to hear a particular message.
Sorry to see there are still folks who object to an open discussion of agency differences. You spent emormous time to do and publish the research. The lawsuit was never about the accuracy of the comparison, just whether or not the public would be able to see the comparison. A different analysis might yield different conclusions, but if the results are gagged, how would we know?!
You were brave to spend the time doing the research and defending its publication. Seems to me that the real trolls are those who badger people just because they don't like to hear a particular message.
pants!:
They are in the PADI standards manual. I've posted some of the bullest ponts of it in past threads but I don't know if any of those posts are still intact since those threads sometimes get removed.
Unfortunately PADI doesn't give the public access to their standards. You have to buy them and you need to be a PADI pro to do it. I think it's been about a year and a half since I let my membership drop so mine haven't been ypdated in that time. I doubt anything has changed in retail membership requirements though.
From what I know of Walter he always calls them like he sees them. That does not make him a troll, but just means he stands behind what he believes in. Some people are threatened by people like Walter, albeit for personal or business reasons.
I just read the article in question and see no problem with it....when I first read some of Walter's posts on SB it was obvious he believes in higher training standards...seeing the date of the article he wrote on Diverlink he obviously has thought this way for a long time.
Being a PADI trained diver it is sometimes difficult to read some of his posts. Ofcourse I take pride in being certified by PADI. When someone says their standards could be raised it can be construed as a personal attack on me saying I was certified by an organization who's standards need to be raised.
Repeat after me...Walter is not a troll. HA
I just read the article in question and see no problem with it....when I first read some of Walter's posts on SB it was obvious he believes in higher training standards...seeing the date of the article he wrote on Diverlink he obviously has thought this way for a long time.
Being a PADI trained diver it is sometimes difficult to read some of his posts. Ofcourse I take pride in being certified by PADI. When someone says their standards could be raised it can be construed as a personal attack on me saying I was certified by an organization who's standards need to be raised.
Repeat after me...Walter is not a troll. HA
...it was about Goliath trying to gag David.
I've known Walter for several years, we've had the opportunity to dive together and I consider him to be a friend. I also think that, on balance, PADI is good for divers, good for dive shops and good for the industry. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place...
It's easy to disagree with Walter's premise and, to some degree, I do. You also may think him strident for caring enough to vest the time and energy into this and, to some degree, I do. The courts - multiple courts - decided that there were other issues involved in this litigation, however.
What mattered - to the courts - was that this litigation was clearly an attempt by PADI to use the litigative process to crush a critic and drive them out of business. This shameful, odious behavior on the part of PADI got them in hot water, if you'll forgive the pun, and resulted not only in the dismissal of their suit but in the very unusual sanctions against them. Besides, though some may not like his overall conclusions (opinions) the data he based them on was gathered, handled and presented responsibly.
Diverlink, Walter and the courts have done us all a favor by keeping the decks clear so that conversations about important topics like training agency standards can continue. It was a long, expensive, difficult and emotionally trying process that he and Diverlink ultimately persevered in.
So, let me repeat: congratulations and thanks, Walter. To my fellow PADI supporters, sometimes the Emperor really is nekkid and it doesn't make things better to deny it when he's walking down the street dangling his participle.
>((())):>
As to the PADI 5-Star requirements, the fact that they are withheld from the public should give anyone who considers them to be anything more than a marketing tool reason to pause. I've seen some of the material they provide to dive facilities and can tell you it is more about requiring the dive facility be devoted to PADI than devoted to the diver in exchange for the rating. Many of the requirements make sense - you have to have been a PADI facility for a number of years and have no recent PADI safety beefs, you must complete X number of certifications and some percentage of them must be beyond OW, etc. Some of them make less sense, however: you can't offer classes that compete with PADI, for instance and, if you're a chain, none of your facilities can offer programs that compete with PADI. It's as much a way of squeezing out the competition as it is ensuring the highest quality standards for divers, and that's not good for divers.
I've known Walter for several years, we've had the opportunity to dive together and I consider him to be a friend. I also think that, on balance, PADI is good for divers, good for dive shops and good for the industry. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place...
It's easy to disagree with Walter's premise and, to some degree, I do. You also may think him strident for caring enough to vest the time and energy into this and, to some degree, I do. The courts - multiple courts - decided that there were other issues involved in this litigation, however.
What mattered - to the courts - was that this litigation was clearly an attempt by PADI to use the litigative process to crush a critic and drive them out of business. This shameful, odious behavior on the part of PADI got them in hot water, if you'll forgive the pun, and resulted not only in the dismissal of their suit but in the very unusual sanctions against them. Besides, though some may not like his overall conclusions (opinions) the data he based them on was gathered, handled and presented responsibly.
Diverlink, Walter and the courts have done us all a favor by keeping the decks clear so that conversations about important topics like training agency standards can continue. It was a long, expensive, difficult and emotionally trying process that he and Diverlink ultimately persevered in.
So, let me repeat: congratulations and thanks, Walter. To my fellow PADI supporters, sometimes the Emperor really is nekkid and it doesn't make things better to deny it when he's walking down the street dangling his participle.
>((())):>
As to the PADI 5-Star requirements, the fact that they are withheld from the public should give anyone who considers them to be anything more than a marketing tool reason to pause. I've seen some of the material they provide to dive facilities and can tell you it is more about requiring the dive facility be devoted to PADI than devoted to the diver in exchange for the rating. Many of the requirements make sense - you have to have been a PADI facility for a number of years and have no recent PADI safety beefs, you must complete X number of certifications and some percentage of them must be beyond OW, etc. Some of them make less sense, however: you can't offer classes that compete with PADI, for instance and, if you're a chain, none of your facilities can offer programs that compete with PADI. It's as much a way of squeezing out the competition as it is ensuring the highest quality standards for divers, and that's not good for divers.
Bob3
Contributor
Not to hijack the thread (much), but I notice that Diverlink http://diverlink.com seems to be offline right now (has been for the past couple of days at least anyway).
Myself & many others first found out about this board (scubaboard.com) on the Diverlink forum, where Eddie steered us to visit this "new site".
Myself & many others first found out about this board (scubaboard.com) on the Diverlink forum, where Eddie steered us to visit this "new site".
DennisW
Contributor
I'm not sure why the site is down. I am sure Eddie is working on it. I visit there at least once every day and still post from time to time.
Similar threads
