PADI Training Question

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Scraps

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In general, nothing good happens fast in the water.

Yes, it is possible to get students to meet the performance requirements for all the confined water dives in one day. There are instructors who are proud of their ability to maximize efficiency and minimize distractions to get the most revenue from the least contact time. And there are facilities where instructors who can’t or won’t teach at this pace won’t fit in.

I don’t think teaching this way is a good idea. To accomplish this single-day confined water marathon, an instructor has to keep plowing ahead all day long, create an atmosphere in which open ended questions are discouraged, and give the shortest possible explanations and demonstrations instead of figuring out what it takes to make the light bulb go on for each student.

The compressed schedule also creates pressure on the instructor to overweight students to get them to the bottom faster instead of doing proper weight checks, to not be quite so picky about performance requirements (especially hover and horizontal CESA), and to settle for one-and-done skill attempts instead of sufficient reps to demonstrate mastery.

I don’t think that style of teaching promotes retention, understanding, good habits, or a love of diving. I also think rushing students is inconsistent with ingraining good safety habits of deliberate gear setup and buddy checks. It is possible that a class taught in this manner may barely meet the minimum requirements but it doesn’t serve most students well.
 
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ZzzKing

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Actually, I know two really good ones (gals). I put them in contact with them. One instructs for the same shop and the other is an independent. I told them to try to meet up with them for an adult beverage or two and discuss their recent experience and concerns / expectations going forward. Whichever seems to relate to them better is the one to go with. I just hope the friend is willing to give it another shot.

Edited to say that this was in response to Marie13’s comment on the previous page. I thought I had hit the quote button but I guess not.
 
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ZzzKing

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The compressed schedule also creates pressure on the instructor to overweight students to get them to the bottom faster instead of doing proper weight checks, to not be quite so picky about performance requirements (especially hover and horizontal CESA), and to settle for one-and-done skill attempts instead of sufficient reps to demonstrate mastery.
This pretty much sums up the situation from what they described. Of course there are at least two sides to every story but I have known my sister-in-law for 20+ years and trust her rendition to be fairly accurate.
 

Ucarkus

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being a teacher, not scuba, it is the teachers responsibility to react and change to the students abilities whether it takes one session or five. It’s part of being an educator
Well there is a big difference between an instructor and a teacher. If you get me into your payroll I will instruct you as long as it takes ;-).
 

Esprise Me

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Chiming in a little late here, but for what it's worth: I might be inclined to contact PADI and share my thoughts even if there wasn't a standards violation per se. I believe there are a number of standards, which may or may not be implicated here, that set a precise minimum baseline but then *also* require the instructor to exercise judgment. And so there are some gray areas where there wasn't a specific rule against what the instructor did, but because it wasn't reasonable and prudent, it wasn't really within what the standards contemplate. Additionally, sometimes the standards have to change because they don't go far enough. Pushing students through training too quickly is both a safety issue and a profit issue; they lose customers by traumatizing people. Presumably they'd want to know this is happening. I don't know what they'll do with that info, but at least you'll know you did what you could.
 

Jim Lapenta

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I refused numerous times to rush people through classes. The minimum number of pool sessions I ever did was 5. Most were 6 to 7 and one guy took 9. I would not spend more than 2 hours in the water. After that people seemed to get cold, tired, and at that point the learning process stops.
I retired from teaching this month.
It stopped being fun and I have other interests I want to put time in.
Then 3 weeks ago I broke my hip riding my bike when my attention was distracted for a second and I over corrected and went down.
I doubt I'll be putting gear on even in the pool before Christmas.
There were many factors in deciding to give up something I thought I'd be doing for many more years. This type of instruction is one of them. I don't want to be associated with an industry where instructors can get away with this bullcrap.
 

calevans

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I have a question relating to PADI trading. I am not interested in an agency bashing session and am looking for constructive input relating to the specific topic. Thank you.

My sister-in-law had her first, and only pool session today for her Open Water cert. She said the instructor came in saying they were going to complete all pool work in one day so he didn’t have to work tomorrow. Of course he couched it that they would have the day off also. So, in cramming everything into one day, he really stressed her out and her friend decided that scuba wasn’t for her and just quit. So bad reactions for them both. My opinion is they should terminate their relationship with him immediately and not complete their open water dives next weekend which is what I expect to be the general reaction around here.

My question, however, is what are PADI Instrctors supposed to do? When I was certified about 15 years ago, we did the pool work over two days with an evening between to contemplate what you learned and adjust your thinking. I thought that PADI required it over two days. Is that correct? I’m pretty sure the open water dives have to happen over two days because you can only complete 3 dives in one day and 4 are required. So, I am wondering whether a) he is just a crappy instructor or b) he is a crappy instructor and should be reported to his certifying agency. Either way, he is getting reported to the associated dive shop, whom I’ve been shopping at for a decade and a half.

Thanks for your input and it would be great if people with specific PADI knowledge would chime in.
I almost always do pool day in a single day. But my classes are always small. I don't usually teach more than 4 students at a time.

Ironically, the only time I've split pool day into 2 days was with a private class of 2. :)

It's not unusual down here in South Florida. Most of the instructors I know do it that way.

With 5 days, swim and float test, lunch and a tank swap, we usually take about 6 hours. I've had it take up to 8 though.

HTH,
=C=
 

Alaskan Scuba Dude

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My opinion is they should terminate their relationship with him immediately and not complete their open water dives next weekend which is what I expect to be the general reaction around here.
If the pool training session was somewhat stressful then this was an indication that the student wasn’t ready to advance in any direction. One must first master the skills to the contentment of the instructor before they are ready to foster open water training. Perhaps one-on-one training may solve the state of uncertainty, but having read your perspective, I highly doubt it.
 
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