PADI TecRec standards

[ginti]

Isn't the real issue here doing a tech dive with unfamiliar Tech divers for the first time?

If you were not trained by the shop the others might not have either. And as others have said above "It's the instructor not the agency" - I'd worry more about getting to know your team and all getting on the same expectations and dive plan more that what the standards of the shop's agency are.

There are several thing I do on my personal dives (Rec- I'm not a tech diver) that I do differently than I did in my training. My self check and buddy check doesn't involve the PADI BWRAF mnemonic for instance

Actually I have reasons to believe that the team of tec divers I will meet is somewhat fixed, and that all of these people got the training at that diving centre. This is why I am interested in agency standards... but what you mentioned is a possibility that I will take into account for sure

 

[divezonescuba]

The biggest difference that I have found in dive shops doing tec dives involves the use of dive computers versus hard copy computer plans.

For example, Buddy Dive in Bonaire uses slightly modified computer generated hard copy plans with a dive computer backup. They are a GUE center, but also teach PADI and NAUI.

Other PADI places expect that you will have at least one appropriate dive computer, preferably two, and at least one computer generated hard copy backup plan.

It is a shock to some people who primarily utilize dive computers when they are forced to use manual plans to do their deco stops. One tec instructor I am aware of, would not even allow you to use your dive computer in the computer mode. You had to set it in gauge mode. He didn’t like it if he saw you looking at your pressure gauge, because you were suppose to have planned your dive. So the guys taking courses with him would sneak a peak when he was not looking.

PADI on the other hand requires you to run the computer in the higher level tec courses.

A second difference is the deco gas switching procedure. I was on a dive when two guys got into it. One guy wanted to do deco to deco while the other guy wanted to switch to backgas between deco gasses. There is also the issue of authorizing the gas switch. Some places require one person to switch at a time while everyone else watches. You can’t stick the reg in your mouth until the other people say it is ok.

 

[JBFG]

Thanks!

I am Italian - but feel free to write as you want, I can understand

I am not interested in the course itself, since I am already trained with another agency, but with very little experience after the course. That's going to be the first time I do tech dives with people I do not know (which is why I will probably start with one easy shallow rec-dive), so I'd like to understand what I should discuss with them before to dive

I am particularly interested in the minimum standard actually...

A quick question, how do you calculate the optimum gas? I assume you first find the deepest deco stop, and then you calculate the deco gas based on END and ppO2 right? The same for the bottom gas? What are the acceptable END and ppO2?

oh I assume since you were from Lyon.

non the less, best is to do 1-2 easy dives with your new buddies and see how they are. I would also spend fair amount of time talking protocols before doing any Tec dive. Talk about your experience, apprehension, techniques, etc.

you may be surprise how nice people are when you don’t judge them by what company they were certified with; not saying that you would! If you don’t feel comfortable with the shop’s approach, don’t do Tec dives with them.

i bet you can have a blast and do some serious nice diving. Where about are you going?

 

[boulderjohn]

It is a shock to some people who primarily utilize dive computers when they are forced to use manual plans to do their deco stops. One tec instructor I am aware of, would not even allow you to use your dive computer in the computer mode. You had to set it in gauge mode. He didn’t like it if he saw you looking at your pressure gauge, because you were suppose to have planned your dive. So the guys taking courses with him would sneak a peak when he was not looking.

The world of tech is changing at a remarkable rate in this regard. I do a lot of tech diving in South Florida each winter.

• Not many years ago, if you were on a boat, every diver was using some kind of bottom timer and written tables. I did not see a computer anywhere, and I did not use one myself.
• Soon after, it seemed like everyone was using a computer and tables, with one as the primary and one as the backup. It varied which was which.
• I think every diver I have seen in recent years has two computers and no table backups.

There has been a similar progression in instruction. It is very possible that an instructor with a certain policy when you knew him has radically changed. In the last couple years, every student I have had already owned two computers when they signed up for the course, and they were a little peeved about having to do the manual tables at the beginning.

 

[ginti]

Thanks to everyone for the answers; @boulderjohn, very detailed, as usual!

This is true, I was merely reinforcing the point that there is a spectrum of possible expectations. That dive just happened to be one of my biggest WTF shocks and seemed relevant to Ginti's circumstances. It's only an N = 1

Just reading it was a WTF shock, I can imagine the actual dive; thanks for sharing

One tec instructor I am aware of, would not even allow you to use your dive computer in the computer mode.

Why? You can always use it as a backup... anyway, I actually use manual plans, so no issue for me

oh I assume since you were from Lyon.

non the less, best is to do 1-2 easy dives with your new buddies and see how they are. I would also spend fair amount of time talking protocols before doing any Tec dive. Talk about your experience, apprehension, techniques, etc.

you may be surprise how nice people are when you don’t judge them by what company they were certified with; not saying that you would! If you don’t feel comfortable with the shop’s approach, don’t do Tec dives with them.

i bet you can have a blast and do some serious nice diving. Where about are you going?

I am confident I am gonna meet nice people, and I am not going to judge them by the agency. I have never judged anyone by the agency, and I will never do it.

About where I am going - well, to Catania, in Sicily, my hometown. The big question mark is "when?" In theory I should go at the end of February, when my contract end, but COVID is not with me. Nonetheless, it's better to prepare in case I 'll be able to go - worst case, I will keep the answers for the next time I will manage to go back home

 

[JBFG]

Safe travel @ginti. Italy is a great country and I can’t wait to go and visit it again soon. I hope.

 

[mc42]

Hi everyone!

I tried to look for some PADI TecRec reports, but couldn't find any here.

Basically, I am interested in the procedures taught during the courses up to TecRec 50, especially:
- emphasis on basic skills (trim/buoyancy/team awareness)
- team vs solo mentality
- safety drill
- valve drill
- gas management, specifically:
A) standard vs optimum gases?
B) how do they choose the gas? (END, O2 toxicity, etc.)
C) deco calculation (software on the PC? deco tables? diving watch/computer?)

I may dive soon in a PADI TecRec dive centre, and I just would like to know what to expect from the divers. Sure, first dive is going to be shallow and I am going to discuss with them pre-dive, and I'll also ask to do some exercises... But I still think it is better to know in advance

If I remember well, @mc42 took some courses on this route and @boulderjohn teaches them, right? Anyone else here who can help me?

Thanks

Adding to, and perhaps providing local flavour to what boulderjohn said:

I've only done up to Tec 45 Trimix, but also previously did GUE Fundies. There are differences, but I was impressed with how well the PADI course aligned with GUE, and in general, good tech diving practices, and a lot of credit goes to the instructor.

Tec 40 is where things start getting real, so I think (I hope!) you won't find massive skill differences, more differences in the micro details on specific skills and procedures rather than the macro level. The key is then to learn what the local procedures are for your soon-to-be team. Gearwise, at Tec 40, you may find single tank recreational gear with some tech additions, whereas by Tec 45, you should expect fully redundant standardized gear.

When practicing skills, it would be good to check and discuss how you do specific skills like the long hose donation or valve shutdown as these can have differences. My GUE valve shutdown was different from what my instructor taught, but he was fine with it. Long hose donation may differ with respect to dealing with a canister light, and my buddy had no experience dealing with a doubles diver with a canister light, so wasn't expecting me to have to pass the cord under/over before untucking. These are not dangerous, just unexpected if you have a specific sequence drilled into you and your new partner does something different. Gas switch procedures will be different as well. There is no purge/SPG needle check in the PADI switch procedure as there is in GUE, for example. Signals may be different, too.

In terms of gas planning, PADI teaches having 1/3 reserve with Tec 40, but we got straight into calculating in detail what was needed for the dive for each phase and gas mix. Standard gases are not mandated by PADI so it's totally your choice whether to custom blend or align with the standards like 32% or 21/35. For rec or shallow tech dives I usually use 32%. We plan with 50% and 100% for deco.

Right from Tec 40, we were taught to primarily use desktop or device deco software like MultiDeco to calculate the profile, and to use our computers as a backup using the same GF parameters. Our planned profiles end up more conservative than our actual dived profiles, so we normally clear deco on the computers before finishing our planned deco schedule. But if anything should go wrong, the computer is there to augment mental adjustments for dive plan +/-. PADI requires two devices (I use a Shearwater, as does probably every tech diver around here, plus a bottom timer).

Class time was primarily spent on in-depth discussion on decompression: software, books, research, gradient factors, ratio deco, deep stops, shaping the curve, etc. My instructor stressed the science behind deco and let us make our own educated decisions on deco planning, which I valued greatly. PADI doesn't prescribe any sort of deco planning process, so this is an area that could significantly differ based upon instructor, agency, and diver philosophy.

As always, the instructor makes all the difference in this case which also means that there could be significant variation (as sadly evidenced in post #7) due to personal ability and practices.

Bottom line, of course, is to reveal and discuss with the team all of these potential procedural differences before you go diving, just to make sure everybody is in alignment and there are no little surprises at depth.

 

[Sevenrider860]

I though the Tec45 Trimix Distinctive Specialty had a maximum Helium content of 20%. Using standard gas planning with 21/35 seems to be outside the limitations of the course. Has this changed?

 

[mc42]

I though the Tec45 Trimix Distinctive Specialty had a maximum Helium content of 20%. Using standard gas planning with 21/35 seems to be outside the limitations of the course. Has this changed?

That hasn't changed. I was mentioning 21/35 purely as an example standard gas around these parts and without knowing if ginti had trimix.

 

[Sevenrider860]

That hasn't changed. I was mentioning 21/35 purely as an example standard gas around these parts and without knowing if ginti had trimix.

Got it. Understood.