PADI Tec Valve Drill -- Question(s)

[Peter Guy]

I'm looking at taking the PADI Tec 40/45 sequence and have been reading up on it. Most of the information seems pretty straight forward but I'm a bit perplexed by the valve drills and what appears to be the standard for them. The drill seems to be very different than what I have been taught in other (non-PADI) classes in that it is a timed exercise.

IF I am reading the information correctly, at the Tec 45 level, the drill is timed and all valves are to be shut down and re-opened within "X" seconds (60 if I remember correctly). IF I understand the sequence correctly it would go something like this:

a. Shut down rt post, switch regs -- open rt post, switch regs (breathe reg down? clip off long hose 2nd stage -- unclip ?)

b. Shut down isolator -- open isolator

c. Shut down lft post -- open left post (purge the reg to empty?)

I can certainly understand why it is important to shut down the "offending" valve quickly but it does seem that having a strict time limit like this could lead to nasty mistakes (like shutting down the reg you are breathing OR missing a step and not opening a valve).

IF you have been involved in this program, was it explained why the time limit is there? If so, what was the explanation? (And yes, WHEN (if) I do take the class, I will be asking the Instructor for his explanation -- I'm just curious if any of you have asked and been given an answer.)

Also, another question -- after doing a gas switch, the back-gas long hose is clipped off but supposedly with a breakaway connector so that it can be easily donated. IF you are on your deco gas, why wouldn't you donate THAT reg and put your back-up into your mouth instead of donating your longhose backgas reg? Or did I just misunderstand the procedure?

 

[boulderjohn]

I had a similar experience with valve drills when I got my TDI trimix certification after having done my earlier work through UTD. The first time I did it with my instructor, I did it the UTD way, and I think it must have been very pretty. I signaled beautifully with my light at each step. I purged the regulator I was switching to each time to make sure it was working. I maintained good eye contact with my teammate throughout the process. I hope I looked reasonably like the UTD video. I probably took two minutes--never having been timed on it, I am not sure.

I then learned he didn't want any of that extra stuff. He wanted me to go through all my valves and make the appropriate regulator switches in less than a minute--period. Once I got that into my head, I just went for speed and stopped all the finesse stuff in between, and I had no trouble. He said that he himself cuts time out by starting to turn off the left post with the left hand while still opening the isolator with the right hand.

As for sequence, he really didn't care.

The thing I always keep in mind with the valve drill is that it is an artificial process that really is never used in real diving. Its purpose is to make sure you can do every part of it, but while you may have to do ANY part of it in real life, you would never do EVERY part of it in real life. In the UTD training I did, I was taught that in a real emergency I would shut off the suspected valve, and if that didn't do the job, shut off the isolator and then call my buddy over to help.

Also in the real world, the key idea is to get the appropriate action taken quickly. I believe that is why my TDI training emphasized speed over beauty.

 

[waterpirate]

I was instructed in the TDI method and was drilled that "there are no style points at depth, just execution". While I am allways envious of people with greater style, tecnique, and skill than I have.... at the end of the crisis shutting down the correct valve and exiting is all that matters. YMMV
Eric

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Having timed valve drills is not unusual. GUE Tech 1 standards specify 15 seconds to close a valve and 15 seconds to open a valve. In other words each valve should be closed and opened within 30 seconds. At the Tech 2 Level GUE standards specify 10 seconds each way. PADI standards are simply asking a diver to perform a timed drill equal to that of a GUE Tech 2 diver by taking 10 seconds to close and 10 seconds to open each valve. 3 valves x 20 seconds = 1 minute.

Standards usually exist to allow an instructor a baseline for what "proficiency" should be. If standards didn't specify an efficient time limit a student could take 1 hour to perform a drill and make a case for it. Nowhere do standards say that you need to time the drill on a stop watch. For all intents and purposes you can count 60 seconds by using Mississippi's like in backyard football. Standards are meant to put you in a ballpark and not break your 'nads nor those of your students. Standards are a tool to tell the student who is sub-par that he isn't proficient and allow you a reason to hold back an unsafe diver.

As for style points, I do a series of drills starting with the concept of developing demo quality skills. Start slowly. Do them correctly. Look good. Improve speed and muscle memory. Once they are proficient, I use the air gun to test the student's awareness and the team's awareness and problem-solving ability. I don't time those and I cut them some slack on style depending upon how difficult I make the failure or multiple failures. By doing things several times in different ways you can satisfy your own standards as well as those in print.

As for donating the long hose rather than the reg that is in your mouth, a tech diver should be able to do both. But, the best procedure in reality would be donating the deco reg. I would consider cave line on a bolt snap a breakaway and I'd unclip the long hose to donate. I would expect my trimix students to donate to two out of gas team members by donating the deco reg, donating the long hose, and going to their back up reg. Diving is a sport. Train above the expected emergency. That way when the emergency happens for real dealing with it is easy compared to training.

 

[Peter Guy]

Thanks John and Trace.

"Style points" -- perhaps in a very silty environment one would want "style points" in order to keep it to just one major failure?

 

[pasc]

Thanks John and Trace.

"Style points" -- perhaps in a very silty environment one would want "style points" in order to keep it to just one major failure?

I was taught "fast is slow, slow is smooth, smooth is fast", which certainly feels true when you're doing valve manipulations, even when the instructor is pointing an air gun somewhere behind your head. I don't think that style and speed are mutually exclusive, as long as you were taught style first.

Pasc

 

[Diver0001]

Our drills for IANTD were timed too. I don't know if it was in the standards or just a personal issue for our instructor. We did a LOT of shut downs too.... until your arms felt like big dead floppy hurting things that somehow attached to your shoulders.

R..

 

[Colliam7]

IF I am reading the information correctly, at the Tec 45 level, the drill is timed and all valves are to be shut down and re-opened within "X" seconds (60 if I remember correctly).

Yes, and the time limit gets shorter as you progress, at least it did when I took the previous two-course sequence.

IF I understand the sequence correctly it would go something like this:

a. Shut down rt post, switch regs -- open rt post, switch regs (breathe reg down? clip off long hose 2nd stage -- unclip ?)

b. Shut down isolator -- open isolator

c. Shut down lft post -- open left post (purge the reg to empty?)

Clipping / unclipping the long hose second stage is not part of the requirement, nor do you have to breath either reg down. You have to be able to close and open all three valves within the time limit. Timing starts when your right hand first touches the right post, and ends when you left hand leaves the left post (and all three valves are open). In fact, depending on flexibility and dexterity you can be manipulating two valves at once - opening the right post with your right hand, while closing your isolator with your left, or opening your isolator with your right hand, while closing your left post with your left hand (how I prefer to do it).

but it does seem that having a strict time limit like this could lead to nasty mistakes (like shutting down the reg you are breathing OR missing a step and not opening a valve).

Yep, it is always exciting to switch from your bungeed necklace back to your long hose, immediately after shutting your left post, and try to inhale against a vacuum. Of course, 'I have a friend' who did that', uh, it wasn't me. I didn't do that, and I promise never to do it again. Seriously, the whole idea of repeated practice is to be able to do it, correctly and safely, without thinking.

IF you have been involved in this program, was it explained why the time limit is there? If so, what was the explanation?

Yes. It is a matter of demonstrating that you can manipulate all three valves quickly, in the case of a catastrophic failure. As several posts have indicated, it does not have to be pretty, it just has to be done.

 

[lv2dive]

In tek50 the requirement per my instructor is 45 seconds for the whole valve drill. Realize that doesn't exactly answer your question but may provide some context.

AND FWIW, I am losing my mind switching my primary and SPG back and forth between cave line and breakaway. The irony is that the breakaways ALWAYS break before I want them to, so when going back to cave line I just have to redo the cave line. Of course I have to cut the cave line to recreate the breakaways, I've used it as practice a couple of times.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

In tek50 the requirement per my instructor is 45 seconds for the whole valve drill. Realize that doesn't exactly answer your question but may provide some context.

AND FWIW, I am losing my mind switching my primary and SPG back and forth between cave line and breakaway. The irony is that the breakaways ALWAYS break before I want them to, so when going back to cave line I just have to redo the cave line. Of course I have to cut the cave line to recreate the breakaways, I've used it as practice a couple of times.

Depending upon how you tie the knot and burn the line, you can get more security from cave line than other breakaway methods and yet still be able to break the knot.