PADI Rocks!!!

[LakeCountyDiver]

One thing for sure is the “myth” that is propagated in the industry by PADI implying that “ the PADI Card will be more recognized than other agencies” as if somebody flies to someplace in the world would be denied diving if he had a certification card issued from an agency that is not PADI. As I have said in prior post most dive operators care more about the color of your money than anything else.

Along with this the only time I ever had trouble was I wantted to do a night dive with a few buddies and the guy told me I need a PADI night diver card. I then had to explain to him how NAUI works and that PADI is not the only agency out there. He pushed the matter a little bit further but then soon backed off after I said a few words I will not repeat and then told him I will go pay someone else who has a brain to let me do a night dive. I mean NAUI does not even have a "night diver card"...

You are right money is the end all. If a place wont let me dive because I dont meet PADI requirments and I am NAUI trained then I really dont need to dive there. This problem is very rare to the fact that I live in Florida.

Note: this is not a bash on PADI this was a bash on the douch at the counter.

 

[Quero]

I am not sure that I understand you 100%. NAUI doesn’t dictate to its instructors that they have to use NAUI’s material. NAUI Instructors are free to use any course material as long as this material meets or exceeds NAUI’s standards and requirements for the respective course (within reason). There are NAUI instructors who use the NOAA manual, the NAVY manual, etc. in their courses in lieu of the NAUI textbook. For a number of years I used the Jeppesen Dive manual for entry and the advanced level courses since it had better information than the old NAUI textbooks. If the PADI textbook met NAUI’s requirements (I doubt it since NAUI requires more knowledge and training than other agencies), theoretically it is OK by NAUI. I have used the PADI Encyclopedia as a reference (amongst other references) when I taught the NAUI advanced course.

My instructor used NO materials. All we did was sit and drink beer and chat. I was only given a PADI manual because I wanted something in my hands to review (I learn best by reading), and it was part of the course price, so I asked for a book.

I can’t comment on your AOW experience but not every NAUI instructor is a good instructor. Being a good instructor depends a great deal on the person themselves and their desire and intentions to be a good instructor. A Harvard Medical graduate is not a guarantee that he/she going to be a good physician more so than a graduate from a lesser medical school. The only guarantee here is that this person did receive a much better than average training but the rest is up to them.

We're on the same page there! I certainly can't say "NAUI Rocks!" based on my personal experience, though I recognize that my experience may not represent the "norm." At the time I did my NAUI course, I was entirely clueless about the course standards and content for AOW. I do know now that what I was offered was far less than what I give my own students through PADI. There are only two possible conclusions: either the NAUI standards aren't the "gold standard" so often claimed or my instructor violated standards. I know that he is now training director of the shop I did my certs through, one of the most respected in Brazil, so I would have expected the conclusion to be the first of the two.

It is my observation that NAUI instructors who are cross certified with other training agencies and teach to the lowest common denominator would not live up to NAUI’s standards. I have known NAUI instructors who were asked “what is the difference between NAUI and Agency X,” their reply was “same as Master Card and Visa.” This type of instructors will be teaching to the lowest standards of all agencies. I did several crossovers to other agencies and when they knew that I am an NAUI Instructor from the beginning, ALL of them just considered the crossover as a formality and gave me the instructor’s card without too much trouble for me (at least 3 other agencies).

My instructor was not cross-certified. He was more than clear that if I wanted a PADI course I'd have to find a different instructor.

One thing for sure is the “myth” that is propagated in the industry by PADI implying that “ the PADI Card will be more recognized than other agencies” as if somebody flies to someplace in the world would be denied diving if he had a certification card issued from an agency that is not PADI. As I have said in prior post most dive operators care more about the color of your money than anything else.

You make good points in as far as recreational training goes, and yet, we hear new divers say all the time "I got my PADI license" even when they trained through SSI or SDI or NAUI, so there is some recognition factor to the PADI brand. But no PADI dive operator or scuba school or instructor I have ever worked with or been a customer of has said to go for PADI because it's the only one recognized worldwide--furthermore, I would have nothing to do with one who did. Nevertheless, for professional training, there's almost no market value in having a NAUI instructor card over here, though as I said earlier, in other parts of the world a NAUI instructor cert is marketable in the industry.

Does that clear up what I meant?

 

[Quero]

Along with this the only time I ever had trouble was I wantted to do a night dive with a few buddies and the guy told me I need a PADI night diver card. I then had to explain to him how NAUI works and that PADI is not the only agency out there. He pushed the matter a little bit further but then soon backed off after I said a few words I will not repeat and then told him I will go pay someone else who has a brain to let me do a night dive. I mean NAUI does not even have a "night diver card"...

You are right money is the end all. If a place wont let me dive because I dont meet PADI requirments and I am NAUI trained then I really dont need to dive there. This problem is very rare to the fact that I live in Florida.

Note: this is not a bash on PADI this was a bash on the douch at the counter.

I actually got my NAUI AOW cert because of something just like this. The instructor sold me a night dive, and then told me I needed to do the night diving class first. So I signed up--it was a NAUI class. Then he said, "now that you've done that class, why not just continue with the other four dives and get the whole AOW cert?" So I said, "why not?" But of course, at that point I was more or less locked in to a NAUI course if I wanted to finish off the AOW.

 

[BoltSnap]

My instructor used NO materials. All we did was sit and drink beer and chat. I was only given a PADI manual because I wanted something in my hands to review (I learn best by reading), and it was part of the course price, so I asked for a book.

I don’t think that using a book is required for AOW.

We're on the same page there! I certainly can't say "NAUI Rocks!" based on my personal experience, though I recognize that my experience may not represent the "norm." At the time I did my NAUI course, I was entirely clueless about the course standards and content for AOW. I do know now that what I was offered was far less than what I give my own students through PADI. There are only two possible conclusions: either the NAUI standards aren't the "gold standard" so often claimed or my instructor violated standards. I know that he is now training director of the shop I did my certs through, one of the most respected in Brazil, so I would have expected the conclusion to be the first of the two.

I can’t say that the instructor violated standards since I don’t have the full story and I don’t know how long ago this took place. It must be noted that there are NO requirements for classroom training in AOW. AOW is geared towards OW work only according to the “minimum” standards. I do about 16 hours of classroom work with my students reviewing and introducing more advanced details of the same material that was presented in the OW course. What I do is the exception. With NAUI AOW it is required that the student does 6 dives representing different types of U/W activities. I do around 10 dives with my students. If your instructor did an informal classroom session with you in a bar or his/your kitchen, that is not a bad thing in itself. What matters was the content. If you felt that he didn’t do a good job, you should have complained to him. If you are inferring that he only went through the motions, took your money just to sell you an AOW card, then there is something seriously wrong with the instructor NOT NAUI or NAUI’s standards.

You make good points in as far as recreational training goes, and yet, we hear new divers say all the time "I got my PADI license" even when they trained through SSI or SDI or NAUI, so there is some recognition factor to the PADI brand. But no PADI dive operator or scuba school or instructor I have ever worked with or been a customer of has said to go for PADI because it's the only one recognized worldwide--furthermore, I would have nothing to do with one who did. Nevertheless, for professional training, there's almost no market value in having a NAUI instructor card over here, though as I said earlier, in other parts of the world a NAUI instructor cert is marketable in the industry.

Does it make a difference if your dive operation where you are now is a NAUI or SSI or anything else other than PADI? I think not.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

BurhanMuntasser, I will echo some of what Quero is saying;

Here on Maui the only "operator" I know of that uses NAUI in his training "marketing" is the "King of the quickie course" who starts his OW course pitch with these words;

"Ready to advance past snorkeling? Well now you can. Become an official certified diver in Maui in as little as 2 to 3 days and be able to dive world-wide for your lifetime."

AFAIK, a NAUI only instructor looking to work for one of the 11 South Maui operators that occasionally hire instructors, or one of the nearly 10 occasionally instructor hiring West Maui operators, would have to "cross over" to some other agency instructor cert (mainly PADI & SSI, possibly SDI, least likely IANTD; a resort instructor might get away with just NASE/WASE).

A PADI only instructor could hit the ground running with 20 operators and would only have to cross over to SSI to work with the operator with multiple shops on the Island.

 

[BoltSnap]

BurhanMuntasser, I will echo some of what Quero is saying;

Here on Maui the only "operator" I know of that uses NAUI in his training "marketing" is the "King of the quickie course" who starts his OW course pitch with these words;

"Ready to advance past snorkeling? Well now you can. Become an official certified diver in Maui in as little as 2 to 3 days and be able to dive world-wide for your lifetime."

First, I don't want to be the person that is defending NAUI bad apples no matter what. If they are bad, report them and let's get rid of them. If he/she is violating NAUI's standards, they should be reported just like any other instructor from any other agency.

What this operation is doing doesn't sound right to me but I don't know the full story. What Quero is mentioning is actually not the full story and doesn't really say much. A guy was conducting the AOW briefing over a beer, soo???

AFAIK, a NAUI only instructor looking to work for one of the 11 South Maui operators that occasionally hire instructors, or one of the nearly 10 occasionally instructor hiring West Maui operators, would have to "cross over" to some other agency instructor cert (mainly PADI & SSI, possibly SDI, least likely IANTD; a resort instructor might get away with just NASE/WASE).

A PADI only instructor could hit the ground running with 20 operators and would only have to cross over to SSI to work with the operator with multiple shops on the Island.

This means to me very good news, I'd come where you are and open up a top notch NAUI operations and I'll be different and respected. I am all for that.

You can look at the status quo as bad news or you can look at it as an opportunity. I chose the latter.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

This means to me very good news, I'd come where you are and open up a top notch NAUI operations and I'll be different and respected. I am all for that.

:shocked2:

 

[Bogtrotter]

If I take the PADI AOW would NAUI recognize this as the equivalent if I wanted to do other advanced NAUI courses?
thanks

 

[BoltSnap]

Probably you can but they would look at the number of dives used to earn each course. The NAUI OW and the AOW require more dives than the equivalent PADI. Also, NAUI requires more skin diving skills than PADI appears to be requiring. At the end, the NAUI instructor will most likely require you to go through an initial evaluation to decide if you need remedial work or if you are all OK. He will most definitely has to go over NAUI's version of the Dive Tables with you to make sure that you are on the same page.

I do require "equivalency/Skill level" assessment from anyone that wants to take an upper level course with me if they never took courses with me before and I don't know much about their skills and knowledge. I do this even with NAUI certified divers. Other instructors will probably do the same.

This may seem complicated at first but it really isn't. You just need to find an instructor that you trust and has the experience and desire to add value to your knowledge and experience.

 

[BoltSnap]

halemanō,

I never had any intention of being involved in this thread since it was a PADI only related thread and I don't want to be in the middle of it. I only got involved just to correct some facts about NAUI that appeared to me as not very accurate.

I still don't want to get involved and get caught in the cross fire here. I certainly don't want to get into a flame war with you since this isn't the best forum for it. I'll do my best to extend you the instructor-to-instructor professional courtesy and not disrespect your knowledge, training or anything else and just leave it at that.

If you believe that what I am saying is wrong or if you have better ideas or more helpful contributions, please don't be bashful about bringing them out here but please extend me the same courtesy and respect I am extending you up until now. I hope that you are capable of at least this much.