PADI Rocks!!!

[BoltSnap]

Yeh I think the O/W courses are about the same for Padi/ Naui/ SDI/ ACUC etc, with a good instructor being the main component to good training. It was the crash courses I was commenting on.

NAUI is a not for profit association- their standard is used by the US Navy I believe.

The differences between NAUI's standards for the basic courses are stricter and more demanding than most other brand name agencies. The difference is MUCH more noticeable as you go higher in the course hierarchy especially at the Master Diver and leadership levels (DM, AI, Instructor, etc.).


NAUI is a democratic not-for-profit association that is owned by its members, NAUI Instructors. The training standards are set by NAUI's Training Department who reports to NAUI's President who reports to NAUI Board of Directors (BoD). NAUI BoD is elected by NAUI Active/Sustaining Instructors. NAUI has NO affiliation or association directly or indirectly with the US Navy.

 

[Bogtrotter]

Interesting, so I'm guessing you would recommend advanced training beyond O/W using NAUI over PADI? I was going to go with PADI as it seems to be more accepted, but maybe I should stick with NAUI.

From Wikipedia:

"NAUI was founded by Albert Tillman and Neal Hess in 1959. In August 1960, NAUI's first Instructor Certification Course was held at the Houston’s Shamrock Hilton Hotel with 72 candidates. The following year, in October 1961, NAUI was incorporated in the State of California as a non-profit educational organization. Al Tillman was the first President and Neal Hess, the Executive Secretary. Other original board members included John C. Jones of the Red Cross and Garry Howland of the United States Air Force. NAUI Worldwide is an international non-profit training agency.[1]

Captain Jacques-Yves Cousteau, the inventor of the aqualung, was on the board of advisors of NAUI, as was Albert R. Behnke, a pioneer of diving medicine.[1] Actor Lloyd Bridges was the first honorary NAUI instructor member. He played frogman "Mike Nelson" in the American television series, Sea Hunt, which popularized scuba diving. Buster Crabbe, the famous Olympic swimmer and movie star, was a NAUI instructor. Other celebrities who are certified NAUI divers include Kevin Costner, Lou Gossett Jr., and Cameron Diaz; Tiger Woods is a NAUI divemaster member. Most of the top universities, colleges and institutes of technology in the United States certify diving students through NAUI, including the US Navy, SEALs, Army Special Forces, and NASA astronauts for civilian diving licenses."

You just gave me another reason not to trust Wikipedia!

 

[Bogtrotter]

On the other hand, their website claims the US military does use the NAUI standard- bottom of page..?

NAUI- NAUI Worldwide Corporate Alliances

 

[BoltSnap]

Interesting, so I'm guessing you would recommend advanced training beyond O/W using NAUI over PADI?

I would recommend that you do all of your training with NAUI right from the beginning. The “generic” NAUI entry level course covers more material in class and confined/open water. The NAUI difference becomes much more noticeable as you go higher in the training pyramid.

I was going to go with PADI as it seems to be more accepted

Accepted for what? In reality, it doesn’t matter when brand name certification card you have when you go diving around the world. What matters is that you do have a certification card. PADI card isn’t going to get you diving in places other agencies’ cards won’t. Most dive operators are more interested in your money after they see that you have a certification card of any brand. The question you may ask now “then why should it matter to me?” It should matter to you and your ability to dive at with better skill level. It always comes to your own diving safety and enjoyment.

From Wikipedia:

"NAUI was founded by Albert Tillman and Neal Hess in 1959. In August 1960, NAUI's first Instructor Certification Course was held at the Houston’s Shamrock Hilton Hotel with 72 candidates. The following year, in October 1961, NAUI was incorporated in the State of California as a non-profit educational organization. Al Tillman was the first President and Neal Hess, the Executive Secretary. Other original board members included John C. Jones of the Red Cross and Garry Howland of the United States Air Force. NAUI Worldwide is an international non-profit training agency.[1]

Captain Jacques-Yves Cousteau, the inventor of the aqualung, was on the board of advisors of NAUI, as was Albert R. Behnke, a pioneer of diving medicine.[1] Actor Lloyd Bridges was the first honorary NAUI instructor member. He played frogman "Mike Nelson" in the American television series, Sea Hunt, which popularized scuba diving. Buster Crabbe, the famous Olympic swimmer and movie star, was a NAUI instructor. Other celebrities who are certified NAUI divers include Kevin Costner, Lou Gossett Jr., and Cameron Diaz; Tiger Woods is a NAUI divemaster member. Most of the top universities, colleges and institutes of technology in the United States certify diving students through NAUI, including the US Navy, SEALs, Army Special Forces, and NASA astronauts for civilian diving licenses."

You just gave me another reason not to trust Wikipedia!

I am not sure of the relationship of the information you are quoting from Wikipedia to trusting or not trusting it. The information you list from Wikipedia is correct. NAUI is still however a democratic agency that is owned by its members, NAUI Instructors.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

They use NAUI standards and I'd guess that the instructors for those entities also hold NAUI instructor status. Therefore they can issue NAUI cards. Once the actual OW cert standards have been met though it becomes a whole new ballgame. Just looked and see that it says they are trained TO NAUI standards. Therefore they can be issued NAUI cards. I knew about Epcot as I have done that and as for NASA I was fortunate enough to work with some disadvantaged kids that were going to space camp. I went and assisted the NAUI Course Director that was doing their intro to scuba course. She just happened to be the director of astronaut scuba training at the Huntsville, Alabama facility. Very nice lady. I still have an invitation to tour the facility if I ever get down there and dive in the simulator.

 

[BoltSnap]

On the other hand, their website claims the US military does use the NAUI standard- bottom of page..?

NAUI- NAUI Worldwide Corporate Alliances

Sorry, I misread your earlier post and I though you said NAUI uses the US Navy's standard but you are actually saying the reverse. The US Navy uses NAUI standards as do other government agencies as well as notable academic institutions, etc.

None of these government agencies, academic institutions, etc. have any control of NAUI at all.

 

[Bogtrotter]

Very interesting. Many thanks for the info and clarification.

 

[Quero]

Yeh I think the O/W courses are about the same for Padi/ Naui/ SDI/ ACUC etc, with a good instructor being the main component to good training. It was the crash courses I was commenting on.

Sorry, but I'm confused as to what you mean by "crash course." The article specifically decries the Open Water Course in statements like this:

PADIs Open Water course only requires four dives before telling students, "That's it. You are now a diver!" Does this show responsibility towards protecting the reefs? PADI - Pass Another Dumb Idiot. ​

I would recommend that you do all of your training with NAUI right from the beginning. The “generic” NAUI entry level course covers more material in class and confined/open water. The NAUI difference becomes much more noticeable as you go higher in the training pyramid.

Among my certs is some NAUI training. When I did my NAUI AOW and asked for my learning materials, they gave me.... a PADI book! In the AOW class I took, the main difference in open water skills between it and the AOW I now teach is that I was required to swim a triangle on the Nav dive. Knowledge development/classroom training was more abbreviated than what I now provide. The only thing that wasn't just a chat sitting at a table while drinking a beer was a diagram of a cylinder with labeled bits (I received my PADI manual after my cert was awarded and was never asked to do any study at all, nor did I have any lectures with powerpoints or similar). I'm not a NAUI instructor, so I don't know whether my instructor violated standards or not.

I did consider NAUI for my professional-level courses, but they are very sparsely represented outside a fairly narrow geographic area (taking into account the entire world). Because I like the format of the organization, I would consider crossing over to NAUI if I lived and worked someplace where it was practical (such as my official 'home country'--Brazil), but I doubt that the courses I teach would be any more complete than they already are through PADI.

My recommendation: Regardless of the level of training, choose your training primarily on the basis of the instructor and only secondarily on the basis of the agency or other factors. If you have two good instructors to select from with whom you have a nice rapport, go with the one who certifies through an agency you like "better" for whatever reason, or go with the one who has a more flexible schedule, or go with the one that is nearer to where you live/work, or go with the one who is affiliated with a more pleasant dive shop experience, or any other criterion that makes sense to you. But make the selection of the quality of the instructor paramount, and give the other factors, including agency, less prominence. (I chose to become a PADI pro because of an outstanding Course Director working at an IDC I liked the "feel" of near my home.)

 

[LakeCountyDiver]

Well now this thread has turned into "NAUI ROCKS" I will have to say is I love Naui and don't think I would like to train with anyone else (outside of cave/tech)... I have an instructor that follows the course material very close which in turn makes a very thorough course. As stated before NASA trains naui and they do that for a reason.

Nothing against PADI but 75% of divers are weekend and vacation warriors who do it a few times a year. These folks go to places like the keys where is is PADI as far as the EYE can see and train. They turn and burn them out in to 2 days and I have seen it many times. PADI for sure turns out many more cert-divers than anyother agency and with that they are going to earn the rep they have because the high % of stupid, dumb, or dead divers out there are being recognized as mostly as PADI divers. Not to mention peoples feelings on there many many specialties that cost $100s each.

Naui may not be the best but it is the best for me. I live in florida and I get to see the difference in preformance from Naui divers over other agencies and it shows.

 

[BoltSnap]

Among my certs is some NAUI training. When I did my NAUI AOW and asked for my learning materials, they gave me.... a PADI book! In the AOW class I took, the main difference in open water skills between it and the AOW I now teach is that I was required to swim a triangle on the Nav dive. Knowledge development/classroom training was more abbreviated than what I now provide. The only thing that wasn't just a chat sitting at a table while drinking a beer was a diagram of a cylinder with labeled bits (I received my PADI manual after my cert was awarded and was never asked to do any study at all, nor did I have any lectures with powerpoints or similar). I'm not a NAUI instructor, so I don't know whether my instructor violated standards or not.

I did consider NAUI for my professional-level courses, but they are very sparsely represented outside a fairly narrow geographic area (taking into account the entire world). Because I like the format of the organization, I would consider crossing over to NAUI if I lived and worked someplace where it was practical (such as my official 'home country'--Brazil), but I doubt that the courses I teach would be any more complete than they already are through PADI.

I am not sure that I understand you 100%. NAUI doesn’t dictate to its instructors that they have to use NAUI’s material. NAUI Instructors are free to use any course material as long as this material meets or exceeds NAUI’s standards and requirements for the respective course (within reason). There are NAUI instructors who use the NOAA manual, the NAVY manual, etc. in their courses in lieu of the NAUI textbook. For a number of years I used the Jeppesen Dive manual for entry and the advanced level courses since it had better information than the old NAUI textbooks. If the PADI textbook met NAUI’s requirements (I doubt it since NAUI requires more knowledge and training than other agencies), theoretically it is OK by NAUI. I have used the PADI Encyclopedia as a reference (amongst other references) when I taught the NAUI advanced course.

As for confined water standards for the entry level course, NAUI requires more skills at a higher performance level than the other agencies most definitely. This involves exact swimming requirements that have to be met before the student is allowed in open water training or is certified in addition to other skin diving and scuba skills. NAUI requires more dives than other agencies in entry level, AOW, etc.
I can’t comment on your AOW experience but not every NAUI instructor is a good instructor. Being a good instructor depends a great deal on the person themselves and their desire and intentions to be a good instructor. A Harvard Medical graduate is not a guarantee that he/she going to be a good physician more so than a graduate from a lesser medical school. The only guarantee here is that this person did receive a much better than average training but the rest is up to them.

It is my observation that NAUI instructors who are cross certified with other training agencies and teach to the lowest common denominator would not live up to NAUI’s standards. I have known NAUI instructors who were asked “what is the difference between NAUI and Agency X,” their reply was “same as Master Card and Visa.” This type of instructors will be teaching to the lowest standards of all agencies. I did several crossovers to other agencies and when they knew that I am an NAUI Instructor from the beginning, ALL of them just considered the crossover as a formality and gave me the instructor’s card without too much trouble for me (at least 3 other agencies).

One thing for sure is the “myth” that is propagated in the industry by PADI implying that “ the PADI Card will be more recognized than other agencies” as if somebody flies to someplace in the world would be denied diving if he had a certification card issued from an agency that is not PADI. As I have said in prior post most dive operators care more about the color of your money than anything else.