PADI OW and AOW

[fisheater]

The dive didn't exactly go as planned. The visibility was pretty terrible. We descended to about 17m, my buddy wasn't feeling comfortable going down into the seemingly bottomless bucket of pea soup and thumbed the dive. We made a normal ascent with a safety stop. Not a catastrophic failure by any means. I was a little disappointed, but very much glad he thumbed it instead of trying to push on through when he was unhappy. We had a good second dive in much shallower water and better visibility later in the day, at least.

As for my questions -- they didn't really go as planned either. I didn't get the deer-in-headlights thing, more like creative handwaving. I'm disappointed. I did discuss the plan in a fair bit of detail, asked enough questions until I was sure it fitted with what I'd calculated was a good idea. But I couldn't get a clear answer as to how he got to the plan.

So, um, I'll probably complete the course and then consider various ways to carry on learning. Either a course through another agency or perhaps finding someone local who's experienced and can teach me informally (you know, answer questions and discuss).

Eh. I'm a bit disappointed with the day on the whole, but at least the second dive was fun. And I got some sun and fresh air and a ride on a boat.

Sounds like it's time for you to join a club and go diving a lot with experienced divers.

 

[xyrandomyx]

Yeah. I'm going to start looking around. I'm in general not the sort who places a lot of emphasis on certifications and formal education. I see that those things have their place and they're often a very good starting point. But, in general, I prefer learning through a combination of experience, reading and discussing with people who know more than I do. So, finding a diving club is probably a good logical next step (not that I've ruled out doing another course, but I'm leaning more towards the club route for now).

 

[tddfleming]

Sorry, your class did not go as planned. With the limited experience that I have had, the inst. are there for discounts at the store for which they teach. I am not saying all of them, but some. As for the ones here on SB, and the ones that hold a high standard, those are the ones we all want for our classes. Like you, I have said something or asked a question and get the look like I am crazy, then I have to explain, again the crazy look. Then, the akward silence.

I am not sure where you are, but I will hazard to guess, somewhere on the other side of the big pond. I take what I can get from these classes and then pull up my big girl pantys and go out and practice, read and learn some more.

Good Luck!

 

[xyrandomyx]

Well, the day didn't go as planned, but I did still learn quite a bit. I confirmed that my buddy can be trusted to thumb a dive if he's not feeling uncomfortable, well before things get out of hand -- good to know. I found out just how weirdly green and murky the water around here can get. And, I've now concluded that I just don't want to dive in those conditions. I wasn't feeling uncomfortable, but I can understand why my buddy was. And, while the other divers on the boat completed the dive without any trouble, they didn't stay down long and didn't seem very enthusiastic about it -- the visibility was too poor for them to have much fun. So, in future, if the water looks like it did that day, I think I'll just sit the dive out (we don't get clear tropical water around here, but we do get better than that).

I'd also be hesitant to write off my instructor as just in it for store discounts. I was a bit disappointed that he couldn't give a clear answers to some of my questions. But, in other areas, he did seem to try give as much information as he could. So, clearly I'm not going to learn everything from him, but I'm sure I can still learn something from him.

Ah, has my spelling betrayed me again? I'm on the other side of the big pond and far off to the south -- Cape Town, South Africa.

 

[SoccerJeni]

It sounds like you got some good things from this experience, some knowledge you didn't have before, and you've made decisions about what you do like and what you don't like to dive in. Overall it sounds like you gained something from this experience, and that's good!

 

[Bubbletrubble]

As for my questions -- they didn't really go as planned either. I didn't get the deer-in-headlights thing, more like creative handwaving. I'm disappointed. I did discuss the plan in a fair bit of detail, asked enough questions until I was sure it fitted with what I'd calculated was a good idea. But I couldn't get a clear answer as to how he got to the plan.

Creative hand-waving is generally what people resort to when they don't know the answer to the question.

Smart people who don't the answer will admit not knowing the answer. Often times, they'll offer helpful related info and then describe how they would approach figuring out the answer. Sometimes this can be even more useful to the questioner than being spoon-fed the answer.

At the risk of ruffling a few feathers, I'm going to hold this up as evidence that proper gas management (beyond the typical be-on-the-surface-with-XXX-psi/bar or turn-the-dive-at-XXX-psi/bar gas plan) isn't formally taught to PADI OW instructors. It sounds like your instructor fulfilled his obligation to teach to PADI standards. He's probably a nice enough guy, too.

I agree with SoccerJeni. From what you've written in this thread, I'd say that overall you learned quite a lot. You definitely have the right attitude for further improvement in the sport.

 

[TSandM]

Gas management is not taught to PADI instructors, at least gas management as we discuss it here on SB.

I had the funny experience of doing my Deep specialty with one of my OW instructors. In preparation for a dive to 120 feet, he had us mark out 120 feet in the parking lot so we could see how far it was. Then he asked if anybody had checked their computer for the NDL at 120 feet (I was the only one who had done that). NOTHING at all was said about gas, until I volunteered what the rock bottom for the dive was . . . and all that got me was a confused silence, and then he continued with his briefing.

To the OP: If you can find a shop that does some technical diving or supports technical folks, you may be able to find some education that is more satisfying to an alert, inquisitive mind.

 

[xyrandomyx]

Creative hand-waving is generally what people resort to when they don't know the answer to the question.

Smart people who don't the answer will admit not knowing the answer. Often times, they'll offer helpful related info and then describe how they would approach figuring out the answer. Sometimes this can be even more useful to the questioner than being spoon-fed the answer.

At the risk of ruffling a few feathers, I'm going to hold this up as evidence that proper gas management (beyond the typical be-on-the-surface-with-XXX-psi/bar or turn-the-dive-at-XXX-psi/bar gas plan) isn't formally taught to PADI OW instructors. It sounds like your instructor fulfilled his obligation to teach to PADI standards. He's probably a nice enough guy, too.

I agree with SoccerJeni. From what you've written in this thread, I'd say that overall you learned quite a lot. You definitely have the right attitude for further improvement in the sport.

I actually felt bad about using the term 'creative hand waving' just after I wrote it. It isn't quite an accurate reflection of his response. It implies he was trying to hide the fact that he didn't know the answer. It was really more that I didn't feel the answer he gave was 'concrete' enough.

Gas management is not taught to PADI instructors, at least gas management as we discuss it here on SB.

I had the funny experience of doing my Deep specialty with one of my OW instructors. In preparation for a dive to 120 feet, he had us mark out 120 feet in the parking lot so we could see how far it was. Then he asked if anybody had checked their computer for the NDL at 120 feet (I was the only one who had done that). NOTHING at all was said about gas, until I volunteered what the rock bottom for the dive was . . . and all that got me was a confused silence, and then he continued with his briefing.

To the OP: If you can find a shop that does some technical diving or supports technical folks, you may be able to find some education that is more satisfying to an alert, inquisitive mind.

I'm not aware of any shop around here that caters specifically to technical divers. I have, however, found a website for a local dive club. I'm going to ask the few divers I know about the club and ask the club for some more info. They claim to have a number of technical divers as members, as well as quite a few instructors from several agencies. It seems like a good place to meet new, experienced and knowledgeable people to dive with. And, it seems like they offer a really good equipment rental rate to members, which I'll admit is pretty attractive on its own.

Finding a club or something similar is going to be my next step. I'll carry on reading theory myself (I'm quite good at picking that sort of thing up on my own fairly quickly), but I need to get more practical experience and the sort of knowledge you get from informal chats with people who know more than you do.

 

[tddfleming]

Well, the day didn't go as planned, but I did still learn quite a bit. I confirmed that my buddy can be trusted to thumb a dive if he's not feeling uncomfortable, well before things get out of hand -- good to know. I found out just how weirdly green and murky the water around here can get. And, I've now concluded that I just don't want to dive in those conditions. I wasn't feeling uncomfortable, but I can understand why my buddy was. And, while the other divers on the boat completed the dive without any trouble, they didn't stay down long and didn't seem very enthusiastic about it -- the visibility was too poor for them to have much fun. So, in future, if the water looks like it did that day, I think I'll just sit the dive out (we don't get clear tropical water around here, but we do get better than that).

I'd also be hesitant to write off my instructor as just in it for store discounts. I was a bit disappointed that he couldn't give a clear answers to some of my questions. But, in other areas, he did seem to try give as much information as he could. So, clearly I'm not going to learn everything from him, but I'm sure I can still learn something from him.

Ah, has my spelling betrayed me again? I'm on the other side of the big pond and far off to the south -- Cape Town, South Africa.

I don't mean to write someone off. I think we can learn from almost anyone we have contact with, if we just listen long enough and keep our mouths closed. However, I do think that some of them should reevaluate the reason for teaching. If their heart is not into it, then maybe they should find another way to get the discounts, like work in the store for a few hours.

During my OW class the classroom portion was for each person taking turns and reading the answer to the questions at the end of each chapter. We went around the room like this for the whole book. I am not sure if that is how all classes are ran, but I can tell you that is not what I expected, and I found it hard to sit though. This inst. mentioned several times the big discounts he received for teaching the class. IMHO, he should of been doing something else. I had already read the book three times. It would have been more beneficial to add to what was in the book and discuss some of the major points.

I have taught classes before in the past and have very early on come to the conclusion that I should not be teaching them. I don't enjoy teaching and whatever I get from it is just not worth it for me. I did a decent job of teaching them, but my heart was not there and I felt that it was not fair to myself or any students that I had contact with. I still get people calling me to ask if I will teach a class and each time I decline. This past weekend I had a guy call me to see if I would teach him or if I offered classes, I explained I did at one point but no longer teach.

Discounts should not be the reason someone decides to teach others scuba. I also felt that if I were to teach something, I needed to know more than what was in the book so that I could answer any questions that could come up. If I did not know the answer, I would admit it and let them know that I will find out. Not make stuff up or confuse the situation. I think that a person that will teach others should take it upon themselves to have a better grip on the info before they teach others. Just, IMHO.

Have fun and learn more!