PADI Master Diver Rating

[Walter]

As has been said the PADI Master Diver course is for all intents and purposes a gimmie.

It's not a course.

 

[Thalassamania]

(I am not pro-PADI or NAUI, I'm just a diver. I've taken PADI OW, AOW, rescue, and am currently in DM as we speak. I took NAUI nitrox, advanced rescue, and master diver. I am telling you this to frame what I am about to say. The following is my opinion only.)

If you are looking for the best education, ceteris paribus, why wouldn't you take the NAUI master diver course? The academics are the entire instructor's course minus the demonstration quality skills, you do real world missions (with indirect supervision and evaluation), and you have to be a decent swimmer and have decent skills. I have seen people actually not be good enough for this course, which means it has standards. It is a real challenge. Why would you mail in some money for a C-card that is the equivalent of a vanity license plate when you could have a NAUI master diver card? There is no other equivalent class, so why not go for something that doesn't require you to defend it when you are done?

"well, I know people say that this card doesn't mean I've mastered anything, but I did 5 specialties already, so I paid some money and got this neat card with a picture of a dolphin on it. Oh yeah, and they mailed me a wall certificate and a gym bag too."

or

"I had to swim 400 yards in a decent time, demonstrate good watermanship skills, swim 25 meters underwater on a single breath, ditch and don my gear, and plan, prepare, and execute my own dives with a real gas plan in deco, night, navigation, and salvage environments. My instructor also tailor made some electives for me to pursue so I could expand my knowledge of areas that were important to me. I also got to do 8 more dives."

Honestly, read those two (opinionated) descriptions out loud. Do you wonder why the PADI MSD course has no clout? Oh...wait...it isn't even a course.

Actually you do develop demonstration quality skills, what you don't get is the teaching theory, teaching practice and NAUI indoctrination. Divers completing the NAUI Master Diver course are proficient to expert, depending on the level of experience they bring to the course.

 

[goodeatsfan]

hmmm.... I've only taken training from 2 agencies. PADI and GUE. I've actually actively pursued this "certification" by taking specialty courses that I thought would be interesting and beneficial. NITROX, DPV, DUP, Equipment Specialist, and Deep.

In fact, I even went to the extent of going to different dive centers in/or different countries to pursue the different specialties. e.g. Taking A DPV course that used GAVINs, X-Scooters and Silent Subs with various drills and scenarios, the Equipment Specialty Course I took actually taught me how to TROUBLESHOOT AND SERVICE my own regulators (whilst reading up both Airspeed press & Scubatools Books), etc..

On the other hand, we have all witnessed divers that took "fast-tracked" routes to achieve the same qualification. AND it is entirely their choice.

Is the PADI MSD nothing more than a vanity plate which requires no courses and just a gimmie? Well, it's a matter of individual perspective. I felt I worked through good instructors with comprehensive instruction to achieve mine, so I say "No, it's not." It is a VANITY PLATE, but I worked hard for mine.

It took me 2yrs, and I am proud of it. You get out of education what you put into it.

 

[Thalassamania]

But the card does demand that you put much in ... you just choose to do so. You worked hard to learn a bunch of stuff, but the PADI MSD card does not represent that since it can also be had, "for a song" unlike, say, the NAUI Master Diver card that is unequivocal evidence of accomplishment. PADI has had a long history of taking course names and assigning them to courses that do not measure up to the courses they were stolen from, this seems to be the one place that the public seem to understand that.

 

[jviehe]

hmmm.... I've only taken training from 2 agencies. PADI and GUE. I've actually actively pursued this "certification" by taking specialty courses that I thought would be interesting and beneficial. NITROX, DPV, DUP, Equipment Specialist, and Deep.

In fact, I even went to the extent of going to different dive centers in/or different countries to pursue the different specialties. e.g. Taking A DPV course that used GAVINs, X-Scooters and Silent Subs with various drills and scenarios, the Equipment Specialty Course I took actually taught me how to TROUBLESHOOT AND SERVICE my own regulators (whilst reading up both Airspeed press & Scubatools Books), etc..

On the other hand, we have all witnessed divers that took "fast-tracked" routes to achieve the same qualification. AND it is entirely their choice.

Is the PADI MSD nothing more than a vanity plate which requires no courses and just a gimmie? Well, it's a matter of individual perspective. I felt I worked through good instructors with comprehensive instruction to achieve mine, so I say "No, it's not." It is a VANITY PLATE, but I worked hard for mine.

It took me 2yrs, and I am proud of it. You get out of education what you put into it.

No, it does require courses. OW, AOW, Rescue, and 5 specialities. Plus 50 logged dives. There's no way someone gets to that point without doing at least some work, unless the instructor doesnt meet standards. And at that point that are far advanced of the average recreational diver.

 

[Thalassamania]

No, it does require courses. OW, AOW, Rescue, and 5 specialities. Plus 50 logged dives. There's no way someone gets to that point without doing at least some work, unless the instructor doesnt meet standards. And at that point that are far advanced of the average recreational diver.

That's a rather frightening thing when you think about it. The NAUI Master Diver program, however, was designed to certify a diver at the skill and knowlegde level of a NAUI Instructor. Granted under competitive presure from PADI, that's now the "Gold" Master Diver and NAUI has (as usual) lowered the course requirements by a little.

 

[scubadada]

PADI bashing, PADI bashing, PADI bashing. After already being an established diver, I took very good PADI OW, AOW, and Rescue courses, completed 5 specialties and EFR and met the requirement for a minimum of 50 dives. At that point I bought my PADI MSD card, reflecting the commitment I had made for additional training. I have nearly 400 dives in my PADI period and would consider myself a reasonably experienced and skilled diver in a number of diverse environments. I continue to dive actively and am improving my skills and advancing my experience. I don't think I'm missing anything here. My advice, get over it and go dive.

Good diving to all, regardless of training agency (ies), Craig

My single PADI MSD/EAN card has never been challenged for any recreational scuba activity with the exception of the rare occasion when DPV cert has been requested for rental. The 2 cards are the only ones I carry.

 

[Thalassamania]

No, it does require courses. OW, AOW, Rescue, and 5 specialities. Plus 50 logged dives. There's no way someone gets to that point without doing at least some work, unless the instructor doesnt meet standards. And at that point that are far advanced of the average recreational diver.

PADI bashing, PADI bashing, PADI bashing. After already being an established diver, I took very good PADI OW, AOW, and Rescue courses, completed 5 specialties and EFR and met the requirement for a minimum of 50 dives. At that point I bought my PADI MSD card, reflecting the commitment I had made for additional training. I have nearly 400 dives in my PADI period and would consider myself a reasonably experienced and skilled diver in a number of diverse environments. I continue to dive actively and am improving my skills and advancing my experience. I don't think I'm missing anything here. My advice, get over it and go dive.

Good diving to all, regardless of training agency (ies), Craig

My single PADI MSD/EAN card has never been challenged for any recreational scuba activity with the exception of the rare occasion when DPV cert has been requested for rental. The 2 cards are the only ones I carry.

The fact that you've gone way beyond the average PADI Diver makes you the exception, not the poster boy for all PADI divers. We all respect you for that.

Even rabid PADI Instructors like jviehe would recognize that you are, "far advanced of the average recreational diver." There is a reason that your MSD card is not garnering you the kudos that you would expect it too amongst some of the more experienced divers here. While you may say that you don't, "think I'm missing anything here." perhaps, at their level of experience, they see something that you do not?

 

[jviehe]

The fact that you've gone way beyond the average PADI Diver makes you the exception, not the poster boy for all PADI divers. We all respect you for that.

Even rabid PADI Instructors like jviehe whould recognize that you are, "far advanced of the average recreational diver." There is a reason that your MSD card is not garnering you the kudos that you like it too amongst some of the more experienced divers here on the board. While you may say that you don't, "think I'm missing anything here." Maybe, at their level of experience they see something that you do not?

That reason is because many elitist divers are jerks. Its the same in any sport.

 

[Thalassamania]

That reason is because many elitist divers are jerks. Its the same in any sport.

I have to wonder if you know a sufficient number of elite divers to make that judgment with any creditability.

Come off it and deal with the questions that are on the table rather than making personal attacks on those who disagree with you, your "elitist" dog doesn't hunt.