PADI Holds The New World's Record for Fastest OW Class

[espenskogen]

While I'm not a huge PADI fan, I do hold some certs from them and am somewhat familiar with their standards.

It sounds like the program we're discussing offers 4 dives in a pool and 4 OW checkout dives (which probably include tours as well as skills).

It actually includes five modules in the pool - One or more modules can be done in the same 'dive' if you like - But they have to be done in sequence - i.e module 1 first then module 2.. etc. The skin dive is actually optional under padi. After the pool work, 4 open water dives are required.

This is very close to NAUI standards which would add only a required skindive or 5th scuba dive. The required skills are a slightly different, but that's not the topic in this thread. I'm not familiar with SSI's standards, but I would be surprised if they require more than 4 pool sessions and 4 or 5 OW dives for basic certification.

The other issue is academic requirements - PADI has decided that students are capable of learning by reading the text book themselves instead of having it read to them. I can't really fault them there.

During the instructor development course, the padi system teaches two teaching methods - Microteaching and Prescriptive teaching.

Microteaching is the version where the instructor lectures the entire curriculum - Really only used for the Assistant Instructor and the IDC/Owsi course.

Prescriptive teaching is what we use for open water students. The key here is establishing what the students know already, or have learned from self-study (i.e quizzes and knowledge review), then teach the objectives of the subjects the student don't know (i.e all subjects he/she gets a wrong answer for during quizzes and knowledge reviews)

Then once that is done, the student proves his/her knowledge by sitting the exam.

This way, if it is a small class, and the student has most answers right, the whole theory session can be done very quickly.

Maybe you can be more specific about what you believe the problem with this operation is.

Caveats: If the OW dives are not conducted in conditions appropriate for checkout/skill review then that's a problem. If the OW dives allow unsupervised touring then that's a problem. If the OW dives don't follow reasonable instructor/student ratios then that's a problem. If the students don't read the text before hand, and they barely pass the exam, and there is no check and balance to actually teach them the material (ie: something better than someone saying the right answer is C for question 14) then that's a problem.

I agree - However, I think all these things are addressed. Whether instructors actually implement these standards is a different question. I know one instructor in particular, for example, who conducted the deep dive of an advanced course in water only 5 meters deep. Rest assured, he will be QA'ed...

 

[vkalia]

Since everybody seems to think that a 1/2 day of class plenty, maybe we should reduce it to an hour. Or eliminate it entirely and have the student read the book at home and fill out the test on a computer and do the pool sessions in the bathtub.

Give it up already, fer chrissakes. This horse is really, REALLY dead.

Vandit

 

[Walter]

Maybe I'm showing my age here, but when I got my NAUI cert, there was a "basic scuba" certification that you had to pass before open water. It consisted of a lot of classroom work on gas laws and the physics of diving and pool sessions that stressed swimming skills. Did only NAUI have such a thing and was it dropped due to the competetivness of trying to attract students?

Basic was eliminated in '86. It was exactly the same as Open Water except there were only 2 checkout dives instead of 4. A basic diver was "required" to dive with an octo while and OW diver didn't need one.

 

[Goose75]

Since everybody seems to think that a 1/2 day of class plenty, maybe we should reduce it to an hour. Or eliminate it entirely and have the student read the book at home and fill out the test on a computer and do the pool sessions in the bathtub.


Terry

I read the thread differently than you do. It seems most are fine with self study as long as the exam is administered properly, but a few disagree and would like the older more in depth programs. Most feel that the 4 OW dives cover the bare minimum on the practical portion and see room for improvement. Some think that 4 OW dives are not enough for even the bare minimum.

So it sounds to me like most people would rather students read the book while taking their bath and spend more instructor/student time in the water.

 

[Mrs.Prages]

Actually, they are.

On my last cruise ship dive (last year) one diver came up bleeding from his nose, another was bleeding from his eye, and the third looked like his leg lost a fight with a cheese grater. 3 injured out of 20 isn't exactly a ratio to be proud of.

They probably would have done better if they had more than 4 dives in an 8 foot pool.

Terry

Well, I know I'm setting myself up for some heavy hits here, but I actually got my OW cert from the princess cruise program. I have since taken a couple of other classes and I have yet to find an instructor who was more concerned, careful, attentive, strict and completely focused on the fact that I become the safest and most complete diver that I could be. His name was Brad and he spent hours every day going over skills with us. Yes we read the book at home and on our free time, but he made sure we knew what we had read and he was very strict on learning the math. We spent two days in lecture and two days in the pool as well as our 4 open water dives. The class was very small, so Brad had time to make sure that each of us was completely comfortable with every aspect of our skills and let me tell you, it was not a "these are the skills, let's see you do it" He exhaustively went over them and over them, to ensure that we could do them in our sleep if need be.

So you say what you will, but I have been reef diving a few times since and I have watched others who trained in more lengthy classes grab and hold the reef, stick their hands into crevices to pull out critters, kick and stand on stuff and generally just be stupid underwater.

I am far from perfect and I still make my mistakes, but those are not Brad's fault. he made sure to teach me to clip my stuff off and streamline myself, watch my bouyancy, know my surroundings, not to waste air by finning like I was in a race, but to find a sandy spot and watch the world around me. Brad taught me how to see what was in front of me and helped me to appreciate where I was and helped me to really love diving as well as being safe.

With that said, I will not go on another cruise probably, because of the boredom I experienced when I wasn't diving. I'm just not the dress up and got to dinner every night kind of girl. The diving class is the only thing that made the cruise worthwhile for me.

I just thought you guys should here from someone that had actually experienced the class. You talk about taking that class and people jumping out and bashing the reef, when one of the strongest points of the class was conservation and care of the reef.

Alright, sorry so long - go ahead and FLAME ON!!

 

[vkalia]

Well, I know I'm setting myself up for some heavy hits here, but I actually got my OW cert from the princess cruise program. I have since taken a couple of other classes and I have yet to find an instructor who was more concerned, careful, attentive, strict and completely focused on the fact that I become the safest and most complete diver that I could be.

A few rules about scuba discussions that you should know:

1/ There are no bad divers on the forum itself - no one, from the beginner with 5 dives, to the instructor with 5000, is anything except a paragon of diving excellence, patience, role-model behavior and safety.

2/ No one on the forum ever breaks any rules

3/ Most divers outside the forum are actually statistics waiting to happen. The fact that people arent dying in hordes is either a statistical marvels that has NASA and MIT up all night in puzzlement, or simply a big cover-up involving PADI.

4/ PADI's mission statement is to actually try to kill as many people as possible. They have not, and could not, have contributed anything of value to diving, EVER. The same also holds true for SSI, SDI, TDI, etc.

5/ Anyone with 20+ dives knows more about diving accidents and the proper way to dive than PADI, RSTC and the rest.

6/ The experiences of each person are absolutely and irrevocably representative of the whole world of diving.

7/ It is solely up to the instructor to produce a good diver - skills of individual divers dont matter at all.

8/ Everybody who takes up diving HAS to be a fully committed dive fanatic. Casual divers are a particularly evil form of life who need to be weeded out as soon as possible.

For a non-competitive sport, we divers sure spend a lot of time putting other people down. Sometimes, I cannot help but wonder if this is some sort of a latent "make myself feel better by denigrating someone else" syndrome.

Are there no bad divers/instructors? Of course there are. I have some interesting apres-dive stories. I know an instructor who took a girl who hadnt dived for 13 yrs since doing OW down to 22m and made her clear her mask - repeatedly, as she was showing signs of stress and not doing it properly. I had an OW student who decided to breathe in without replacing his reg in confined water. Hell, the list starts at home - I have done a few courses myself where I havent been as patient as I could/should have.

But these generally have been the exceptions, rather than the rule.

The day I start to get so bent out of shape over what other people are doing, I'll give up diving for good and stick solely to photography.

Glad to know that you're enjoying your diving - it is meant to be fun, although I think that bit gets left out here.

Vandit

 

[scubaaaronh]

Well, I know I'm setting myself up for some heavy hits here, but I actually got my OW cert from the princess cruise program. I have since taken a couple of other classes and I have yet to find an instructor who was more concerned, careful, attentive, strict and completely focused on the fact that I become the safest and most complete diver that I could be. His name was Brad and he spent hours every day going over skills with us. Yes we read the book at home and on our free time, but he made sure we knew what we had read and he was very strict on learning the math. We spent two days in lecture and two days in the pool as well as our 4 open water dives. The class was very small, so Brad had time to make sure that each of us was completely comfortable with every aspect of our skills and let me tell you, it was not a "these are the skills, let's see you do it" He exhaustively went over them and over them, to ensure that we could do them in our sleep if need be.

So you say what you will, but I have been reef diving a few times since and I have watched others who trained in more lengthy classes grab and hold the reef, stick their hands into crevices to pull out critters, kick and stand on stuff and generally just be stupid underwater.

I am far from perfect and I still make my mistakes, but those are not Brad's fault. he made sure to teach me to clip my stuff off and streamline myself, watch my bouyancy, know my surroundings, not to waste air by finning like I was in a race, but to find a sandy spot and watch the world around me. Brad taught me how to see what was in front of me and helped me to appreciate where I was and helped me to really love diving as well as being safe.

With that said, I will not go on another cruise probably, because of the boredom I experienced when I wasn't diving. I'm just not the dress up and got to dinner every night kind of girl. The diving class is the only thing that made the cruise worthwhile for me.

I just thought you guys should here from someone that had actually experienced the class. You talk about taking that class and people jumping out and bashing the reef, when one of the strongest points of the class was conservation and care of the reef.

Alright, sorry so long - go ahead and FLAME ON!!

There you have it the system works. Just shows classrom experience doesn't make you a better diver; the instructor and the practical make you the better diver with practice.Sure learning to plan a dive is important but you can learn most of that on your own, and then in meeting with the instructor ask questions and learn what you didn't understand. If systems like this didn't work do you think universities would run network classes online, where when the person graduates, goes out in the real world works on multi million dollar systems to flail around and bring down a network. I dont think so. These systems of teaching work so live with it and get over it. This is the future of teaching and it has been proven to work. If a person doesn't want to learn the material it doesn't matter whether they are in a classroom setting or not.

 

[Goose75]

LOL Vakilia. I think you've summed up the board very well.

I've always wondered why pride is so entangled in diving. Maybe that would be a good thread to start someday.

 

[The Chairman]

Vkalia... just one word: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Mrs. Prages... thanks for our daily dose of reality! It's easy to find fault, but as with any theory, reality has a way of dismissing the doom sayers!

No agency can take the blame (or credit) for the current state of Scuba Instruction. That rests entirely on the shoulders of the instructors and the shops who supervise them. In the early seventies, the focus of any diving school was on "earning your fins". Pushups in full gear on the pool deck in the blazing sun was somehow supposed to make you a better diver. Seeing this made me put off actually getting certified for some time.

Today's class has a far better eco-slant to it than ever before. We push neutral bouyancy like never before, both to protect the divers as well as the reefs. As time progresses so will our focus on what WE think is important. Last week I just did a crossover to SDI and TDI. The academics will be taught online and computers will be used instead of tables. I am "OK" with that... welcome to the 21st century!

 

[colby]

Vkalia, NetDoc and Mrs. Prages,

Thank you for these choice words.

Happy diving