padi float thing

[s7595]

all good points
the ? is then if there are say 1,000,000 divers
how many of them can swim in a strong currant for 3-10 mins or longer at surface
or when was the last time any of you who have responded
had to do the above ?
we put faith in equipment everyday
example 70 mph in a car on a interstate
yet 50,000 americans get killed everyday on us highways
more than the veitnam war

 

[s7595]

50,000 americans killed yearly on us highways

 

[Arnaud]

s7595 once bubbled...
all good points
the ? is then if there are say 1,000,000 divers
how many of them can swim in a strong currant for 3-10 mins or longer at surface
or when was the last time any of you who have responded
had to do the above ?
we put faith in equipment everyday
example 70 mph in a car on a interstate
yet 50,000 americans get killed everyday on us highways
more than the veitnam war

What is the connection between the Vietnam war, the number of fatalities on the road and having to swim in a current?

You have been given valuable advices about improving your situation in the water. You also have been explained why the notion of safety is a fairly limited concept when scubadiving and how this underscores the need for a diver to always improve/perfect/maintain his or her skills.

As divers, we put limited faith in our equipment. We try and choose the best possible gear, but none are exempt from failure, no matter how much we pay for them. And even if the failure rate were just 1%, most divers have no interest in becoming a statistic.

So you have a choice. Either learn, improve and maintain your skills, or take your chances and hope your buddy does not subscribe to the same philosophy.

 

[ladycute1]

This may not be what you want to hear, but I think the ability to float, tread water, or "drown-proof" is absolutely critical for divers.

I don't know what the actual failure rates of bc's are -- but I know of two specific incidents that happened to two different instructor friends of mine -- I was present for one of them -- where the bc failed and bouyancy could not be maintained through use of the equipment. So, I don't think that a small equipment failure rate is reason to ignore such an important safety skill.

 

[Damselfish]

I recall at least one other very long thread, basically on whether swimming was needed for scuba. There's lots of arguments that scuba is different from swimming, or that anyone could fall off a boat and there's no swimming requirement for people to get on a boat, and on and on.

But it seems pretty simple to me. You're (by choice) in the water!!! Way in the water, not in a pool or puttering around off the beach. Aside from comfort level, things go wrong. Agencies requiring standards for swimming and treading water seems extrordinarily reasonable to me.

 

[s7595]

thanks for the comments
I think I need to clear a few things up
1 I agree you need to be able to swim and float or you you die
2 scuba is safe as long as you now your limits and go by the book
3 what does not make sence to me is you can swim with mask, fins ,snorkel for 300meters in pool wich I did , but when it comes to float no equipment .
understand my way of thinking ,safety first
as a contrator useing high presure equipment ,working at high places , lots of danger ,but at the end of the day you trust your self and your equipment to do the job
I aproach scuba the same way , I realize you can break a strap and lose fins and mask , bcd can fail , with exposure suit on at surface it would be easier to float .
been to the ymca and have found that I have to arch my body to float ,next week will see instrutor
talking about equipment faliure ,my padi instrutor had a tank seal go at 70' , he can hold and release his breath for 2.30 mins
what are the changes of a tank seal going ?

 

[Damselfish]

My theory is this - they only make you float for 10 minutes. If you were in a real situation where you needed to hang out in the water awhile, it might be 10 minutes, or it might be hours. If you still had your gear, and knew you were ok without it for 10 minutes, you should be comfortable a much longer time with it.

Of course there's always the situation where you did have to ditch gear or your BC failed or whatever, and you'd be in the water for at least a bit like that until getting on the boat. This should not be a big deal, but if you had trouble floating without fins and inflated BC it could become one, especially if things were already going wrong.

When I did my OW (PADI) I don't think we were allowed to use mask/fins/snorkel for the swim either. Do I remember wrong or did this change?

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

ladycute1 once bubbled...
This may not be what you want to hear, but I think the ability to float, tread water, or "drown-proof" is absolutely critical for divers.

Amen on that!

What if you have an OOA situation and you surface and have to manually inflate the BC. Not only will you be exherting your body trying to inflate the BC but you will have to tread water to beat hell in order to stay afloat until you get some air in that BC.

I have students manually inflate their BC when they surface from the controlled emergency swimming ascent or simulated controlled ascent (Agency language). They usually have a difficult time and it's a real eye opener for them.

 

[norcaldiver]

The point is: just get it over with.
I had to take French for 1 year in high school. I lived in little town Iowa....German or Danish would have been a better language, or even Spanish. But no it was french. Stupid? Yes, but I just got it over with and moved on.
There's no requirment that says you MUST float. You can tread water or doggy paddle in small circles. I've never seen an instr make people FLOAT. The usual breifing by my regular instr is float, tread water, heck, if you can take a deep breath, sink, sit on the bottom for 10 minutes and then pop back up and still be on the breath, you pass.
It's not a float or tread water thing anyway, it's a "are you comfortable in the water with out gear" thing. Can you relax and just ahng out for a while at the surface without freaking out and flailing to keep your head above the water? If you're not, then you should try again later when you are.

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

norcaldiver once bubbled...
The point is: just get it over with.
I had to take French for 1 year in high school. I lived in little town Iowa....German or Danish would have been a better language, or even Spanish. But no it was french. Stupid? Yes, but I just got it over with and moved on.
There's no requirment that says you MUST float. You can tread water or doggy paddle in small circles. I've never seen an instr make people FLOAT. The usual breifing by my regular instr is float, tread water, heck, if you can take a deep breath, sink, sit on the bottom for 10 minutes and then pop back up and still be on the breath, you pass.
It's not a float or tread water thing anyway, it's a "are you comfortable in the water with out gear" thing. Can you relax and just ahng out for a while at the surface without freaking out and flailing to keep your head above the water? If you're not, then you should try again later when you are.

The YMCA standards do require the student to JUST FLOAT for a duration as well as tread water.