PADI E-Cards

[Schwob]

I think and I want to emphasise that as I haven't checked - that there is a service where you pay a relatively small fee per month and you get access to all your e-cards as long as a host of other benefits. If these benefits are useful or not will depend on you as a person. And I'll let someone who is more active with padi say what they are and if it's even online yet.

I'd also point out - that you don't need all your cards. When I was working in a nice tropical location I didn't really care about seeing your open water card if you had AOW. If you have a tech50 card that will cover absolutely everything apart from self-reliant. So just take the tech50 (or have e-card version) and don't worry about the rest.

Well, it should be that way, but not always is. (I don't have a Tech 50 card BTW, it was an example to make the point).
Just last week at Rainbow Reef, the Solo (SDI) card I had on me would not get me on one of their boats for a deeper than shallow dive. So I pulled out the other card I had on me, a PADI Fundamentals in Tech card. Admittedly an odd one being shy of tech 40 and more than Intro... but it got me on there with a Padi#, AOW is a prerequisite, I have that with PADI, yet the shop employee could or would not be able to arrive at that I have e.g. valid PADI AOW cert...
I don't know why that is, but doesn't punching in one valid cert for a diver show all valid certs for that diver at least with that organisation? It should be that way..., but if RR can't or won't do it, who can / will?
So, bringing a higher card that requires the specific requested lower card as a prerequisite did not work here.

Hence I say it would be nicer if your latest card also showed all your prior certs with that organisation, so that you indeed can travel with one card (per cert. org.)

Luckily I had my other certs printed on paper, front and back (just a print of the scanned cards, not doctored), got that from the car and then that worked. Go figure... but I guess the actual AOW cert. number had to be inputted somewhere.

 

[ReefHound]

I think some people here aren't completely aware of how the PADI Ecards work. The ecards download to the PADI app on your phone or tablet. They can be viewed offline, no need to connect to the internet once the ecard has been downloaded (it's a tiny file). Going diving, no problem, just flash the card from the app to the dive centre, simple. Never had anyone not know what it is. The PADI app is ok, a bit clunky in places, and they use it for marketing a bit too much, but you can log your dives too. I can't see how authenticity of the ecard can be questioned. I'm sure it's possible to make a fake ecard, but the effort needed.........making a fake physical card is way easier.

I think some people aren't listening to what others are saying. If that has been your experiences with dive ops, good for you. Others here have related different experiences. Some ops question them or reject them. The authenticity can be questioned by the op simply doubting it. As I said, it doesn't matter if the op is wrong, ignorant, silly, or irrational about it because they will have the final say if you're going diving with them or not.

As for faking one up, I could fake up an e-card in a few minutes. Grab an image from the web for the cert I want, paste in my photo and my name, done. You mean the barcode? Who verifies that? Faking the physical card can be done but it is way harder as you actually have to have the necessary materials and equipment.

 

[Codger81]

I received a free ecard with MSD. Wouldn't buy one though.

 

[Attonine]

I think some people aren't listening to what others are saying. If that has been your experiences with dive ops, good for you. Others here have related different experiences. Some ops question them or reject them. The authenticity can be questioned by the op simply doubting it. As I said, it doesn't matter if the op is wrong, ignorant, silly, or irrational about it because they will have the final say if you're going diving with them or not.

As for faking one up, I could fake up an e-card in a few minutes. Grab an image from the web for the cert I want, paste in my photo and my name, done. You mean the barcode? Who verifies that? Faking the physical card can be done but it is way harder as you actually have to have the necessary materials and equipment.

I mean faking the ecard in the PADI app where the ecards live. From your description you don't know what the PADI ecards in the PADI app are, which is the original point I was trying to make. PADI ecards can only be viewed in the PADI app. They are small electronic files that are downloaded and stored by the app in the ecards section and viewed with your photo, and qualification details, PADI number, instructor details etc in drop down menus. They are not stand alone files, they are not digital photos of your PADI card stored in your photos on your phone. So to fake one, you will need to be an iOS/Android developer, reverse engineer the PADI app, code the fake ecard, work out where it needs to go into the app, trick the app authenticating mechanisms, account authentication, disable account syncing with PADI's database etc etc. Grabbing a web image and pasting details is not going to create anything that is like a PADI ecard.

Of course, dive operators reserve the right to operate as they see fit. I would suggest any operator who doesn't recognise a PADI ecard because it could be fake simply doesn't understand what the ecards are and should be gently pushed to find out what is happening. I finished living in UAE last November, in Fujairah, The Damaniyats in Oman, Mussandam, Khassab everyone used ecards and all the operators knew what they are. After this experience I would certainly show my Iphone with the ecard open in the PADI app first, before even thinking about producing the traditional card.

The only thing I find questionable about the PADI ecards, is the £30 price attached to them. We can connect credit cards to our phones, boarding passes, hotel reservations, driving licenses, any number of things. The validly of e-things is pretty established now. PADI cards are the only time I've been asked to pay, what is quite a high fee, for the convenience of the ecard.

 

[Codger81]

I finished living in UAE last November, in Fujairah, The Damaniyats in Oman, Mussandam, Khassab everyone used ecards and all the operators knew what they are.

Yep, you won't find anyone in the region that doesn't. I'm surprised anywhere would reject it.

Incidentally, I left the UAE in March after 20 years there since the early 90s.

 

[ReefHound]

I mean faking the ecard in the PADI app where the ecards live. From your description you don't know what the PADI ecards in the PADI app are, which is the original point I was trying to make. PADI ecards can only be viewed in the PADI app. They are small electronic files that are downloaded and stored by the app in the ecards section and viewed with your photo, and qualification details, PADI number, instructor details etc in drop down menus. They are not stand alone files, they are not digital photos of your PADI card stored in your photos on your phone. So to fake one, you will need to be an iOS/Android developer, reverse engineer the PADI app, code the fake ecard, work out where it needs to go into the app, trick the app authenticating mechanisms, account authentication, disable account syncing with PADI's database etc etc. Grabbing a web image and pasting details is not going to create anything that is like a PADI ecard.

I know exactly what you're talking about. How about simply a phone screenshot of an e-card in the PADI app then photoshop it? I thought you said you just flashed your e-card to the op. You mean they have to carefully watch you turn on your phone, open the PADI app, and call up the card? You know, to make sure you are not flashing them a digital photo stored in your camera roll that looks like an e-card displayed in the PADI app.

 

[Attonine]

I know exactly what you're talking about. How about simply a phone screenshot of an e-card in the PADI app then photoshop it? I thought you said you just flashed your e-card to the op. You mean they have to carefully watch you turn on your phone, open the PADI app, and call up the card? You know, to make sure you are not flashing them a digital photo stored in your camera roll that looks like an e-card displayed in the PADI app.

As an operator, if they are worried it's fake they can either ask the diver to open the ecard in front of them, or simply touch the screen, the ecard is interactive. I don't know about you, but my phone is switched on all the time, so not really a big deal. And let's face it, if, as other participants of this thread have stated, operators are prepared to accept photos of traditional cards (not exactly secure), this argument is moot. The ecard is secure.

Just ask any HR or IT dept and you can get a fake traditional card knocked up in a few mins too.

I didn't realise the fake PADI card market was so buoyant.

 

[ReefHound]

Yep, you won't find anyone in the region that doesn't. I'm surprised anywhere would reject it.

Incidentally, I left the UAE in March after 20 years there since the early 90s.

If someone does reject it, I doubt your surprise will get me on the boat. I'm surprised all charter ops don't maintain a website that post rates, rules, trip schedule, and allow you to book online.

Another reason for the cards is i've seen some ops that make a photocopy of your card for their records. If it ends up in court, how else can a charter prove that they did check for cards and you did present them a card?

 

[HantsDiver]

As an operator, if they are worried it's fake they can either ask the diver to open the ecard in front of them, or simply touch the screen, the ecard is interactive. I don't know about you, but my phone is switched on all the time, so not really a big deal. And let's face it, if, as other participants of this thread have stated, operators are prepared to accept photos of traditional cards (not exactly secure), this argument is moot. The ecard is secure.

Just ask any HR or IT dept and you can get a fake traditional card knocked up in a few mins too.

I didn't realise the fake PADI card market was so buoyant.

If they were worried they could simply log into the padipro's site and have a look in about 2 minutes. Now that does assume that they are padi pros. However it's no different to judging the authenticity of any agency card. I've never seen a UTD card (and have only heard of them on here) I'd just have to assume it was legit. GUE cards look so home made it's not even funny - they look shocking.

But - you have to just take things at face value. If someone lies and get's hurt I'd have done my job.

Side Note - I worked in Thailand. You could buy padi cards on Khoa San Road easily - people even tried to sell me them. I had a look and they looked alright. They cost about $5-10 depending on which card.

 

[Codger81]

If someone does reject it, I doubt your surprise will get me on the boat. I'm surprised all charter ops don't maintain a website that post rates, rules, trip schedule, and allow you to book online.

Another reason for the cards is i've seen some ops that make a photocopy of your card for their records. If it ends up in court, how else can a charter prove that they did check for cards and you did present them a card?

The places I've used in the Emirates are mostly book online. I assume they've verified who you are in advance anyway, and just want a photo to confirm. I've screenshotted all of mine and keep them cloud-saved and locally; but I over-prepare and still have completed manuals scanned and saved.