PADI DMT Disturbing problem

[DevonDiver]

Hey guys... heard what you said. I was probably a little curt with the reply, sorry about that. I didn't have the time to provide my normal standard of in-depth consideration.

I think the OP diluted the real concerns raised in his post by covering several different issues, some of which seemed personal (the instructor's girlfriend thing).

The OP is on an internship. Whilst still a paying customer, the idea behind the program is to allow the student to become integrated into the working operations and lifestyle of a dive center. In essense, you become part of the team. You get a 'behind the scenes' insight. That means exposure to the sort of things (personal arguments, relationships etc) that a normal diving customer never gets to see.

It'd be unprofessional to let customers see 'behind the scenes', but it is a fact of life for interns. It sounds like the OP has not yet made the mindset transition from pampered customer to dive worker yet.

I felt the issue about diving with the Thai woman was a little weak. As a trainee DM, I would expect the individual to be fully capable of conducting a dive without supervision (aren't OW divers supposed to do that?). His buddy didn't offer to do a buddy check or agree a plan for the dive. So why didn't he insist on it? Being a dive 'professional' is about taking responsibility for the diving. So... he was given a chance to learn some lessons from that. If he wants his 'hand held' in these situations, then DM is not for him.

I think that it a good sign that the course director concerned provided his trainee DMs with some free diving opportunity, outside of the formatted programme. These dives allow the DMs to take responsibility for themselves, practice their dive leading skills and learn lessons from their own experiences. Not every dive center gives their DMTs these 'extra' dives. They may be called a 'fun dive', but they offer a very real opportunity for learning through the application of the knowledge they have already been given.

I would say that the OP should appreciate the lesson he learnt.... that he failed to take control of the dive preparation, when he felt it wasn't to the appropriate standard. Be aware of this...and don't let it happen again. Have the confidence to say 'no'. when you need to. Have the confidence to take charge.

Sounds to me like this 'fun' dive was very educational.... so stop whinging...

The issue about EFR course standards is worth raising. However, I am confused by his description of the circumstances and problem. There seems to be a lot of assumptions by the OP, that could be based on misunderstanding. As others have suggested, he should contact PADI/EFR ASIA PACIFIC to clarify the situation.

 

[tvh13]

OP, have you discussed this with the instructor and owners? Have you have a full, sit-down, rational, clear conversation? I would suggest starting there. List your concerns and expectations. Have a dialog that goes both ways. If what you say is true, then you may not get a positive response form them, but your responsibility is to try. PADI will ask that question from you first. If you feel that you are not getting a proper education, then you should move your training elsewhere.

The instructor is the owner it is a small shop.

I have brought up some concerns but I am going to sit down with him this weekend to see if we can work towards a mutual understanding. There are always two sides to any situation like this and I want to give him a chance to be heard. If I don't find his answers satisfactory I will will then decide what to do next.

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful (and though provoking) replies. Some have asked for the shop name and I will not be sharing that right now. Especially until I meet. I will keep you posted.

 

[scubapimp]

I would say walk away from this DMT program. You have already witnessed violations of standards and of the 10 rules to dive or die by. Don't blame the PADI system. There are less than spectacular instructors in ALL agencies. You need to interview the trainers before handing over your money. I would take your concerns to the director of training for said diving operation. If this person does not rectify the situation then contact PADI Training and Quality Management.

 

[tsovil]

TVH13, you have a problem. We had a large training site close to us and they were expelled from PADI (both the facility and the owner/PADI instructor). I don't know all the details but heard enough from disgruntled students and staff to know things were not well there. This was a PADI 5-Star IDC and CDC.

You are in a tough situation and I empathize with your position. You are a student and in most cultures students don't get to criticize their teachers. At least not easily. The hard thing for a new diver, whether at Open Water level or Divemaster is that you don't have anything to compare it too. Asking you to "rate" your training would be very hard for you to do. Rate it compared to what? Many folks that do get lousy training don't realize it until they have been diving for awhile AND get exposed to other divers and facilities. If you want to get a "feel" visit a few other PADI shops in your area, don't tell them about your present situation, don't criticize your current trainer(s) but ask questions that don't lead but can be answered in a very factual manner. You may get your answer that easily.

However, diving is a recreational sport and it should be fun. You are moving to the position of a Dive Professional and you were given a lot of materials that should outline how this should work. A poster above suggest you first sit down and talk with your trainer/facility management. You do need to start there. If you aren't happy with what you hear, then ask about refunds or other options.

If this doesn't go well or you still have concerns than write to PADI HQ in California and be very specific about your concerns. Be polite and objective but do provide specific details as to events, dates, instructors and what you witnessed.

Good luck to you! I hope you are able to finish your Divemaster course and join the ranks of other PADI Professionals.

Terry


Formulate a list of your concerns and write them down. Keep it objective (measurable) not subjective (more opinion). Prioritize the list from what is more important or your biggest concern to least. You may not get through the entire list. If you aren't happy with the results

 

[AndyNZ]

I am already deeply into the DMT program both in time and money and making payment towards their IDC program. This is a large investment for me but not so large that it is worth going home feeling like crap much of the time. I have spent not only money but time and effort to attain this training and is this is the kind of organization that PADI awards with Platinum course director status what exactly do they base this on?

To answer the last question first, I'm not sure about the exact details of platinum status - but every other PADI status is based pretty much on number of certifications acheived. For platinum CD, there may be something else to do with IDC pass rates - but I am guessing. It's really just a marketing sham.... it would be like rating Thai Air as a worse airline than Aeroflot because they run less flights.

If you are already "deeply into" the DM programme, then doing it elsewhere is probably not an option. Whilst you are entitled to get a referral and only complete the unfinished components - that will still come with an additional overhead, both in terms of time and money.

You have to take control of the situation - I would start with a very open conversation that starts with "hey, this isn't what I expected" which then goes on to define what it is you do expect.

I would also look for the positives here - every situation is a learning experience. Your experiences here will help you determine what type of instructor you DON'T want to be.

I was in a very similar situation when I did my DM course - I watched an instructor I was working with not only violate many standards, but simply do a slack job of teaching and not add any value. If you had completed your DM course, you'd be obliged to contact PADI. As you are a DMT, you are not. I know most of the people at PADI-AP in Sydney and know that you would get a lot of support and assistance from them in resolving this. But if we are talking about professionalism, I would try and resolve it with the centre first (and document all the outcomes!) before getting in touch with PADI.

 

[Crowley]

Platinum CD is exactly that - number of certifications issued, not necessarily representative of quality of instruction.

To the OP - it's difficult from your post to get a clear indication as to whether or not standards have been broken. Assisting with an EFR course is not a problem, as long as you are not actually teaching or giving final assessment to the students - same as it might be with your training during assisting an Open Water class. As long as the instructor is supervising and assessing, it's not a technical breach of standards. With respect to the diabetic thing - are you sure your instructor does not have more advanced first aid training from an organisation such as DAN? He may well be qualified to sign off those papers, even if it's not part of EFR.

As for the fun dive with another DMT - well as long as you weren't training, no standards have been broken. Okay, a quick buddy check and signal review would be sensible but there are no dive police who will come along and arrest you for not checking if your buddy's weight belt is the wrong way round before you enter the water. This is the difference between what you are required to do whilst acting under the auspices of a training agency and what you do outside of that. This has nothing to do with PADI - basic checks and reviews are just common sense, and taught by everybody.

It's difficult to get a clear impression as to whether or not your training has been faulty, given that you are attending an experience program, as has been mentioned before. The sit-down and chat approach is probably best, but you can also write or call PADI Asia Pacific and like AndyNZ above I dealt with those folk regularly and they are great and will help you. If you decide to make a complaint to PADI, be sure your facts are correct. If your CD and instructors have wilfully violated standards I'd like to be there when they get their come-uppance, but if they haven't, then for sure your internship is over, no refunds.

Good luck,

C.

 

[Taiwanate]

tvh13,

While slightly different, I can sympathize the situation you are in. I too am completing my DM cert and while assisting another instructor did clearly witness a variety of standards that were broken. The sad thing was that this guy is a Course Director with high numbers that I was hoping to do my IDC with him. I have since changed my mind. What's even better is that he is telling my instructor that it is galling that I questioned why the standards were broken since I am JUST a DM candidate (note, questioning was not in front of any other students or individuals but in private with the course director and my instructor). The result of the whole situation is a lot of bad talk around the island which is not pleasant, but also the fact that this instructor is going to now do another weekend of diving with these students before fully giving them their certs.

What I would suggest is that while you may not agree with the professionalism of your instructor, which doesn't really have a standard that is black and white, review your instructor manual which does state instructor requirements and course requirements. Think of it as a checklist, if the instructor completed said requirements he is probably within standards, if not, he has probably missed some for an unclear reason. Outside of that it would be hard to argue right or wrong and becomes opinionated on how something is best done.

Hope things work out for the best, just remember that there are many different ways to get to the end, some nicer than others.