PADI DM swim times

[TMHeimer]

I agree with everything Crowley is saying. I was on the swim team 40 years ago but struggled mightily to get a 3 on the 400--because my technique had gone from superb to zero. Once a week at the pool got me back to some semblence of being a swimmer. Also, those weekly trips cost me about $40 in gas each. This could not be a continuing routine! And the ocean is f*^$ing frigid 9 months of the year here. I feel I am in fine "dive" shape for whenever I complete DM. But don't ask me to do the 400 now. By the way, I had no trouble with the 800. The pros and cons of stricter stamina tests have been discussed to death in the Going Pro forum, no need to rehash it all here. As I see it there are basically two camps: Those who feel (regular, non-fin) swimming (long distances) is an integral part of diving and being a DM. And those who feel swimming has very little if nothing to do with diving or divemastering. It's obvious which camp I am in. And oh, there are a few who just prefer to say it all has to do with comfortability in water. Not sure what that means, having been "comfortable" in water since age 5 or so.

 

[hypertech]

why?

minimum requirements is, as the words suggest are minimum requirements.

the shop and the "instructor" (who is going for his course director cert this year) like to pride themselves on the level of rescue and DM divers they certify.

personally I'd not be keen to dive with a DM who just meets the physical requirements they're alarmingly low enough as it is.

Because your instructor (who is going for his course director) is violating training standards each and every time makes that a requirement. An instructor can teach you things not int he standards and can ask you to do extra things, but he cannot fail you for not meeting extra requirements.

So, if a person isn't able to tread for the full 10 minutes in OW, then he has either failed to ensure they can meet the requirement to "not sink," or he has to have them do it again and see if they can meet the actual requirement.

 

[TMHeimer]

Because your instructor (who is going for his course director) is violating training standards each and every time makes that a requirement. An instructor can teach you things not int he standards and can ask you to do extra things, but he cannot fail you for not meeting extra requirements.




Yeah, that seems so simple a thing to follow, no?

 

[Davemohio]

I am "preparing" for the 400 yard swim. I used to swim competitively..35 years ago. I work out at a gym regularly but when I got back to swimming laps, it was a real adjustment... using muscle groups I have not used in years. Going into the pool and practicing helps. My first attempt was 8 minutes 15 secs. Second attempt was 7:30. Practice helps. My stroke gets progressively sloppy the last 100 yards.

 

[TMHeimer]

I am "preparing" for the 400 yard swim. I used to swim competitively..35 years ago. I work out at a gym regularly but when I got back to swimming laps, it was a real adjustment... using muscle groups I have not used in years. Going into the pool and practicing helps. My first attempt was 8 minutes 15 secs. Second attempt was 7:30. Practice helps. My stroke gets progressively sloppy the last 100 yards.

I had the exact same experience.

 

[bracko]

Because your instructor (who is going for his course director) is violating training standards each and every time makes that a requirement. An instructor can teach you things not int he standards and can ask you to do extra things, but he cannot fail you for not meeting extra requirements.

So, if a person isn't able to tread for the full 10 minutes in OW, then he has either failed to ensure they can meet the requirement to "not sink," or he has to have them do it again and see if they can meet the actual requirement.

the situation didn't present itself, so I can't comment. I can't see the issue with an instructor asking more of the students than the minimum requirement though. we all had the instructors manual, we all had the opportunity to read what the minimum standards were so again, I'm wondering what is the significant problem you seem to have?

the instructor should at the end of the day feel confident that he is signing off students that can safely and properly meet the standards of the course. asking more of a student in terms of stamina and skills is not a "violation" of the standards, to use your slightly melodramatic terminology, and since he hasn't failed anyone, he has not "violated" any standard.

 

[hypertech]

It absolutely is a violation of training standards. PADI will tell you that too. Did the open water students who were forced to tread water for 10 minutes know that they had the option to float? Were they given a set of the training standards before their OW class to know what was extra and what was real? By doing that, they aren't teaching a PADI class anymore. They are teaching their own class. There is a reason for standards. You don't have to like them, but they are there to ensure consistent quality across thousands of instructors. If you pick and choose what you are going to follow and what you aren't, well, then it isn't a class according to the standards anymore.

Also, that sort of attitude is how you end up with threads like the one about the instructor who forced a student to do a no mask swim in a cold quarry claiming it was a requirement with a young student who is now afraid to dive.

I'm not opposed to training to higher standards but there are better ways to approach it. For example, the real requirement can be explained and then a reason for doing better can be explained and the students can perform to a higher level by their own choice.

 

[USMCNJ]

thanks for all of the information, i will be doing my DM swim test later this month. we are splitting it up into 2 sessions which i think is a good plan. i think im going to save the 400 for the last because i think that will be the most challenging. @JAR546 how bad could it be, we did the USMC swim test!

 

[TMHeimer]

It absolutely is a violation of training standards. PADI will tell you that too. Did the open water students who were forced to tread water for 10 minutes know that they had the option to float? Were they given a set of the training standards before their OW class to know what was extra and what was real? By doing that, they aren't teaching a PADI class anymore. They are teaching their own class. There is a reason for standards. You don't have to like them, but they are there to ensure consistent quality across thousands of instructors. If you pick and choose what you are going to follow and what you aren't, well, then it isn't a class according to the standards anymore.

Also, that sort of attitude is how you end up with threads like the one about the instructor who forced a student to do a no mask swim in a cold quarry claiming it was a requirement with a young student who is now afraid to dive.

I'm not opposed to training to higher standards but there are better ways to approach it. For example, the real requirement can be explained and then a reason for doing better can be explained and the students can perform to a higher level by their own choice.

Again, agree completely. And bracko, inclusion of the Instructors manuel is as of 2010, so some of us didn't actually have one.

 

[jar546]

thanks for all of the information, i will be doing my DM swim test later this month. we are splitting it up into 2 sessions which i think is a good plan. i think im going to save the 400 for the last because i think that will be the most challenging. @JAR546 how bad could it be, we did the USMC swim test!

USMC swim test was a warm up to the aircrew water survival qualification course I took in Jacksonville, FL in 1986. Not sure I would pass the 1 week long WSQ-1 now at this age. There was a 50% failure rate back then but I was a fish and 20 years old!