PADI DM swim times

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*shrug* thanks for the info, like i said i don't have the manual in front of me.

we were required by our instructor to tread water only which made life a little bit harder, which in my mind isn't a bad thing, our shop also requires OW students to tread water instead of floating [initially].
 
*shrug* thanks for the info, like i said i don't have the manual in front of me.

we were required by our instructor to tread water only which made life a little bit harder, which in my mind isn't a bad thing, our shop also requires OW students to tread water instead of floating [initially].

I got a copy of the instructor manual (at least the standards part) in my DM packet. I actually read all of the standards and realized I can just float on my back with my hands on the belly and pointed it out to the instructor :D
 
*shrug* thanks for the info, like i said i don't have the manual in front of me.

we were required by our instructor to tread water only which made life a little bit harder, which in my mind isn't a bad thing, our shop also requires OW students to tread water instead of floating [initially].


Yes, in OW we also were required to tread water and not allowed to just float. I was able to do that OK for 10 minutes without doing the hands out thing. It would be nice if the requirements were followed uniformly by all instructors/shops. I have been able to float --barely-- in salt water since maybe 7 years old. Drown proofing would be the only way I would live any length of time if in the middle of Lake Michigan--this would be true at my present age of 56 or when I was 20. Treading water 10 minutes in OW made life more than a little bit harder for ME, and after a longer while I would've drown. So treading, at least for me makes no sense. Matter of buoyancy, not stamina. Drown - proofing isn't sinking anyway, it's just that most of the time part or all of your head is under. When in water most of you is under anyway.
 
"we weren't allowed to float on our backs " - too bad - your instructor should have read the performance requirements better.
 
"we weren't allowed to float on our backs " - too bad - your instructor should have read the performance requirements better.

why?

minimum requirements is, as the words suggest are minimum requirements.

the shop and the "instructor" (who is going for his course director cert this year) like to pride themselves on the level of rescue and DM divers they certify.

personally I'd not be keen to dive with a DM who just meets the physical requirements they're alarmingly low enough as it is.
 
Are there any requirements for on going physical fitness?

How about the overweight DM or Instructor that gets winded getting out of the water?

What about the same that may have passed the requirements so long ago when they were young and would not have a snow balls chance in hell of passing it today?

If there is no continuing physical requirements for stamina, then what is the point?
 
Are there any requirements for on going physical fitness?

How about the overweight DM or Instructor that gets winded getting out of the water?

What about the same that may have passed the requirements so long ago when they were young and would not have a snow balls chance in hell of passing it today?

If there is no continuing physical requirements for stamina, then what is the point?
Fair question.
fwiw, from the Membership Commitment section of PADI's Instructor Manual:
Code of Practice
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As a PADI Member, you agree to the following:
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Perform a personal readiness self assessment before you teach or lead others on dives. This includes evaluating your physical health and fitness for diving as well as your ability to supervise and respond to diver emergencies on that day and at that location.
Obviously some of us take this code more seriously than others.
 
Equipment exchange involves switching all gear with a buddy...fins, mask, bcd. While doing so, you are sharing air from a single regulator. Have practiced this one time and realize that it is important to go slowly as this helps you stay calm... :))
 
There is an elephant in the room, and how many instructors and dive guides did you see drinking lots of beer and smoking lots of cigarettes?

There is fitness, and there is fitness to dive, and these are not necessarily the same thing. Personally, I am not a strong swimmer. I can do it, but I don't swim regularly and therefore don't exactly work up a great deal of speed. I actually don't enjoy swimming either. On the other side of the coin - put a pair of fins on me and I can go forever.

I smoke, I drink regularly, and if you ask me to run a marathon I will die, that's why we invented motorcycles, after all. But again, I can scull through annoying currents without changing my air consumption and I'm for sure not the best but I usually finish the first dive of the day with 70 bar (about 1000psi) in my tank. As a comparison, last year I was diving with an olympic-trained long distance runner and not only was he not so great in the water (rescue diver) but he also sucked gas twice as quickly as me.

That's not bragging, that's just pointing out that some physcial fitness is of course required to be able to dive, but the way in which a person is "fit to dive" varies. I refer readers to the question on the RSTC medical form which is "[answer yes or no to an] inability to perform moderate excercise e.g. walk one mile in 12 minutes" I know one guy who, presented with two very overweight customers, asked them to do this, and when they failed, refused to instruct them!

Some types of diving do of course require a higher degree of physical fitness. Working hard, deeper technical diving, areas with strong currents and so on, but your average recreational diver need only be in reasonably good health and preferably not knocking on Death's door. I did have one medical with THIRTEEN "yes"' on it. I didn't even bother calling the hyperbaric doctor, I wanted to call an ambulance.

With regards to the swimming - as long as you are able to maintain yourself comfortably, there is no requirement for technique. You can butterfly, breast stroke or doggy paddle as long as you can do it, and you can do it comfortably. With the float, bobbing, drown-proofing, treading, maintaining yourself by regular farting, it doesn't matter, as long as you *can*.

I know people would like all divers to be great swimmers but the two activities don't actually have a great deal in common for the most part - apart from the water thing, of course. One might argue that anybody who wants to surf, water-ski, ride a rubber ring towed by a speedboat or otherwise engage in water based activities should also be required to be able to swim.

I'm not arguing for the removal of the swim tests from either OW or DM, but I think the scoring system for DM reflects that you don't need to be in peak physical condition to pass. Good physical condition, yes, and I think instructors who demand more than the requirements are acting admirably, but some of the rules I've seen don't make sense - for example, several instructor colleagues of mine would not allow kick-rolls to be performed if the candidate was taking the test in a swimming pool, because this was somehow cheating. I overruled that eventually, because to me it just meant that the people who can do that properly are really good swimmers.

It would be great if we all as divers looked as Baywatch as people sometimes think we should be, but most of us aren't, and actually this is not such a big deal.

I thought the elephant would go away but now it is asking me for peanuts.

Cheers

C.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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