Not to sound like a wiseguy, BUT that's saying A LOT!!
I have to try one of these. Genesis, you have and dive the 36# Pioneer from Halycon right before this?
Oxycheq Wings
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I have to try one of these. Genesis, you have and dive the 36# Pioneer from Halycon right before this?
I have close to 100 dives on the Halcyon Pioneer 36.
After today it is no longer my wing of choice. I'll keep it around in all probability for friends who may come and want to dive with me but don't have gear with them, but I have no reason to use it personally any longer. I may put it up on eBAY. We'll see.
Its not a bad product - don't get me wrong. I've had no trouble with leaks or other "problems", as some others have.
But beyond issues such as the "rubber" (stretchy) inflator hose on the Pioneer, which is collapsable (its not dimensionally stable) and the expandable panels on the OUTSIDE of the 36 (a potentially major issue - they form "pockets" at the bottom, which is a perfect way to hole the thing around wrecks and such, as they can trap objects in the direction of forward motion - not good) and obviously price (the Pioneer is more expensive) there is the matter of trim.
The Oxycheq simply trims out better IMHO.
The Pioneer has a habit of letting too much air end up in the bottom of the wing due to the expandable panels there. If you do not pay close attention to this you can end up with your butt being drug up too high. On the surface this tends to throw you forward into the water, face-down, as too much lift is at the bottom of the wing on the surface. At depth its less serious, but can be EXTREMELY annoying when you go from either level or slightly face up to inverted (say, to stick your head in a hole and check something out) and find that your trim has shifted radically head-down as a consequence of the panels.
The Oxycheq doesn't do this. The air does flow around the wing naturally, but it doesn't have the tendency to go "face plant" on you on the surface, nor to lift your butt at depth. If you inflate it pretty seriously on the surface you can easily ride on it like a raft, and yet if you inflate it modestly it will keep you nicely vertical in the water on the surface as well.
The Oxycheq inflator hose is also more rigid and will not collapse. I prefer it over the Halcyon by a wide margin. I also don't have to play games with it to dump from it, and I have had to in the past with the Pioneer, "stretching" it to get the proper outbound airflow. This is not a problem with the Oxycheq inflator hose at all.
After today it is no longer my wing of choice. I'll keep it around in all probability for friends who may come and want to dive with me but don't have gear with them, but I have no reason to use it personally any longer. I may put it up on eBAY. We'll see.
Its not a bad product - don't get me wrong. I've had no trouble with leaks or other "problems", as some others have.
But beyond issues such as the "rubber" (stretchy) inflator hose on the Pioneer, which is collapsable (its not dimensionally stable) and the expandable panels on the OUTSIDE of the 36 (a potentially major issue - they form "pockets" at the bottom, which is a perfect way to hole the thing around wrecks and such, as they can trap objects in the direction of forward motion - not good) and obviously price (the Pioneer is more expensive) there is the matter of trim.
The Oxycheq simply trims out better IMHO.
The Pioneer has a habit of letting too much air end up in the bottom of the wing due to the expandable panels there. If you do not pay close attention to this you can end up with your butt being drug up too high. On the surface this tends to throw you forward into the water, face-down, as too much lift is at the bottom of the wing on the surface. At depth its less serious, but can be EXTREMELY annoying when you go from either level or slightly face up to inverted (say, to stick your head in a hole and check something out) and find that your trim has shifted radically head-down as a consequence of the panels.
The Oxycheq doesn't do this. The air does flow around the wing naturally, but it doesn't have the tendency to go "face plant" on you on the surface, nor to lift your butt at depth. If you inflate it pretty seriously on the surface you can easily ride on it like a raft, and yet if you inflate it modestly it will keep you nicely vertical in the water on the surface as well.
The Oxycheq inflator hose is also more rigid and will not collapse. I prefer it over the Halcyon by a wide margin. I also don't have to play games with it to dump from it, and I have had to in the past with the Pioneer, "stretching" it to get the proper outbound airflow. This is not a problem with the Oxycheq inflator hose at all.
SeaJay
Contributor
How 'bout sending a wing my way? I've purchased more than a few things from you... Backplates, STAs... Why not send me a wing or two?
I'll test them... And get them back to you ASAP. Then I'll write one of my novel writeups right here on Scubaboard and let everyone know how your wings are...
If you let me keep them a bit longer, I'll use them in my world record attempt and get you some media coverage. Phase I (of 5) is coming up in the next few weeks...
I've got an idea... Is it possible to make a "special edition" that's a cool royal blue color (you know, like what's on most people's wetsuits) for the world record event? That, combined with your logo on the side... Well, that would show up well in media coverage. I think it could help get the name out there... And maybe prove that you don't have to wear black to be DIR.
Maybe it could even have an American and Brit flag on it to represent the nations involved... America (me) and Britian (Guinness Book of World Records)...
Sure, it's hokey... But I believe it would sell... And get you some needed coverage.
...Then you could keep the wings I use and put them in a glass case so that when you're rich and have a huge business, you could show people: "I remember when I let this putz from South Carolina use my wings on TV..."
I'll test them... And get them back to you ASAP. Then I'll write one of my novel writeups right here on Scubaboard and let everyone know how your wings are...
If you let me keep them a bit longer, I'll use them in my world record attempt and get you some media coverage. Phase I (of 5) is coming up in the next few weeks...
I've got an idea... Is it possible to make a "special edition" that's a cool royal blue color (you know, like what's on most people's wetsuits) for the world record event? That, combined with your logo on the side... Well, that would show up well in media coverage. I think it could help get the name out there... And maybe prove that you don't have to wear black to be DIR.
Maybe it could even have an American and Brit flag on it to represent the nations involved... America (me) and Britian (Guinness Book of World Records)...
Sure, it's hokey... But I believe it would sell... And get you some needed coverage.
...Then you could keep the wings I use and put them in a glass case so that when you're rich and have a huge business, you could show people: "I remember when I let this putz from South Carolina use my wings on TV..."
RichLockyer
Guest
Scott! Go for it dude! THAT amount of ad space would cost way more than the price of two wings
How 'bout a keg of Guinness attached? I'd buy a dozen wings if they came with a keg of Guinness!
SeaJay
Contributor
ROFLMAO!!!
OK, having used BOTH the 30 and 45 now (the 30 is still in the rinse tank from this afternoons romp in the salt, and a buddy of mine dove the 45 this afternoon) here are my impressions.
1. There is NO - zip, zero, nada - difference in trim between the 30 and 45. This is simply amazing - Koplin has managed to do what Halcyon could not - design a wing that doesn't play the "butt game" when the lift goes up in size.
2. There is NO - zip, zero, nada - difference in EXTERIOR dimension (height x width) between the two wings.
3. The ENTIRE difference is in the inside bellows, which are completely protected by the TANK and thus virtually impossible to damage (e.g. think sides of wrecks, unruly speared fish, etc)
Both of these wings trim out and dive fabulously. Neither has any penalty (or benefit) over the other in terms of drag in the water that I can detect - both almost perfectly "disappear" when in use.
The only difference I can detect, having dove both - is the ultimate lift. You can literally ride the 45 like a RAFT on the surface. The 30 doesn't have enough lift for that, but it will happily float you mostly out of the water on your back.
My configuration for these dives is a single HP steel tank, 3 mil jumpsuit, 19cf pony, SS BP + STA (Halcyon BP and OMS STA), long hose with bungied backup. I need 2lbs of lead to sink me in this configuration.
For those who say the 45 is "too much", I say "bunk." That has, up to now, been predicated on the trade-offs you have had on all the Halcyon products over 27lbs - both the 36 and 45s have had the expando-panels on the bottom outside of the wing.
This is not true for the Oxycheq, and does not apply to them. Both the 30 and 45 are perfectly fine, and there is no compelling reason to buy the lighter one on the basis of trim - at all.
I'm keeping both, but will probably dive the 45 most of the time, simply because I won't have to mess with anything as I change from wetsuit to dry. The 30 with AL plate is likely to end up being my g/f's BC of choice
The Halcyon Mousetrap has been trumped!
1. There is NO - zip, zero, nada - difference in trim between the 30 and 45. This is simply amazing - Koplin has managed to do what Halcyon could not - design a wing that doesn't play the "butt game" when the lift goes up in size.
2. There is NO - zip, zero, nada - difference in EXTERIOR dimension (height x width) between the two wings.
3. The ENTIRE difference is in the inside bellows, which are completely protected by the TANK and thus virtually impossible to damage (e.g. think sides of wrecks, unruly speared fish, etc)
Both of these wings trim out and dive fabulously. Neither has any penalty (or benefit) over the other in terms of drag in the water that I can detect - both almost perfectly "disappear" when in use.
The only difference I can detect, having dove both - is the ultimate lift. You can literally ride the 45 like a RAFT on the surface. The 30 doesn't have enough lift for that, but it will happily float you mostly out of the water on your back.
My configuration for these dives is a single HP steel tank, 3 mil jumpsuit, 19cf pony, SS BP + STA (Halcyon BP and OMS STA), long hose with bungied backup. I need 2lbs of lead to sink me in this configuration.
For those who say the 45 is "too much", I say "bunk." That has, up to now, been predicated on the trade-offs you have had on all the Halcyon products over 27lbs - both the 36 and 45s have had the expando-panels on the bottom outside of the wing.
This is not true for the Oxycheq, and does not apply to them. Both the 30 and 45 are perfectly fine, and there is no compelling reason to buy the lighter one on the basis of trim - at all.
I'm keeping both, but will probably dive the 45 most of the time, simply because I won't have to mess with anything as I change from wetsuit to dry. The 30 with AL plate is likely to end up being my g/f's BC of choice
The Halcyon Mousetrap has been trumped!
ElectricZombie
Contributor
Interesting. I'll have to see if I can find a shop that will let me try an OxyCheq out.
...I still don't think it will outperform my Halcyon though...
...I still don't think it will outperform my Halcyon though...
cyklon_300
Contributor
an Oxycheq wing during my deco class dive this week.
It's a nice looking piece of equipment, very sturdy construction. His comments regarding its performance were quite positive.
Hmmmm, I may have to trade out my Halcyon 36....
It's a nice looking piece of equipment, very sturdy construction. His comments regarding its performance were quite positive.
Hmmmm, I may have to trade out my Halcyon 36....
Boogie711
Guest
I should get it Monday or Tuesday at the latest.
I'm really looking forward to diving it. Oh - and completely unsolicited plug - COVCI rocks my world. Chris over there is so awesome and great to deal with - www.covci.com if you ever need anything - you won't regret it.
I'm really looking forward to diving it. Oh - and completely unsolicited plug - COVCI rocks my world. Chris over there is so awesome and great to deal with - www.covci.com if you ever need anything - you won't regret it.
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