OW v. AOW

[Walter]

I agree with the basic concept, but you still need to address basic skills left out of most OW courses that aren't in the AOW course.

 

[RonFrank]

There are divers out there with OW only that have logged 500 dives. There are AOW divers who have never done any diving outside of the classes.

AOW is just training, and IMO does not mean much other than you have been trained, or at least, that is how IMO Dive operators should view it.

DM OTOH is different.

I read a recent post by Cristi that I thought was VERY good. She indicated that they don't form their opinions based on what you say, but rather how you dive.

That, IMO is a VERY good attitude to have about a diver under your supervision.

Training is a GOOD thing. It's better to have an AOW card on top of a OW card before ever doing 100 foot depths, vs. having NO deeper dive training and doing 100 feet. There are no shortage of paper C card holders that end up doing the Blue Hole in Belieze. Who would be better off, one with ZERO AOW training, or someone with just a handfull of dives that HAS AOW?

For those of us who do not live near easy diving, training is a way to keep active in diving. I would rather be able to walk out the back door, and be on a reef, but we are not all so lucky. So I'll likely do some specialities just to be active over the winter...

Ron

This question came up in the Hotel Cozumel thread in Intro & Greets section. I think it might be better suited for this section and have its own thread because it might be interesting to hear differing views.

My contention is that a diver should not be able to go for AOW cert till they have a minimum of 50 dives. I also think that getting your AOW WHILE you are getting your OW cert diminishes the meaning of ADVANCED. I've seen divers with AOW cert with less than 15 dives, which I think is misleading. AOW cert SHOULD mean you have some dive experience and not just be a meaningless card. As someone suggested, OW1 or OW 2 would work too, but the word Advanced in the AOW cert is misleading, it seems.

 

[simbrooks]

I have always felt the the OW and AOW should be combined and called the OW. The skills practiced in the AOW such as navigation, peak bouyancy, understanding deeper than 60fsw, and such are all paramount to making a squared away beginner. Make the course 10 dives instead of 4 and 5. I know this would kill the weekend certification courses in the resort destinations, but we'd end up with better divers. Too many get the OW and never move on. They dive a few times a year or more but never really get it. The added instructional value in combining the two would give the instructor more time to work out the weak points and fine tune a beginner before launching them out of the nest.

But how much would this course cost??? Would new students go for it compared to the $99 weekend course, do the new students realise what they are missing? I know this has all been covered before, but how do you truly make this kind of thing work as an instructor? Some instructors go beyond the basic minimum and try to produce "soon to be good divers", others just try to produce card carrying UW air breathers.

 

[webjr]

"and you get that by diving. A minimum would indicate some level of experience, don't you think?"

Logging dives is certainly one way of doing it . I just happen to think doing it under the supervision of an instructor is better and definitely safer , also a diver can advance thier skills at a much quicker pace in a structured learning environment . Allot of that is also dependant on how good the instructor is . *IF* the OW instructor did his job right there's no reason a student can't proceed directly to AOW class right after OW .

 

[pilot fish]

"why then would you waste your money on the course?"

Which is what I'm asking. From what I'm reading, it doesn't seem to be worth much more than OW

 

[SeanQ]

Spending X number of dollars on courses without the needed experiance will not make you a better dive. Taking an AOW course directly after you OW course before you have done any other dives seems like a bad idea. In my short diving career I have seen and spoken to divers that seems too confidant to the point of ignorance. An AOW C-Card will not prevent you from getting narced on your 1st dive dive to 40m. Keep in mind that it does not instantly make you a better diver, it gives you the knowledge and procedures you can apply to your dives to make yourself a better diver.

 

[ZenDiver]

I have always felt the the OW and AOW should be combined and called the OW. The skills practiced in the AOW such as navigation, peak bouyancy, understanding deeper than 60fsw, and such are all paramount to making a squared away beginner. Make the course 10 dives instead of 4 and 5. I know this would kill the weekend certification courses in the resort destinations, but we'd end up with better divers. Too many get the OW and never move on. They dive a few times a year or more but never really get it. The added instructional value in combining the two would give the instructor more time to work out the weak points and fine tune a beginner before launching them out of the nest.

Im with you.....wish it could be applied in todays culture. Too many want it quick and easy and want it now.

 

[RonFrank]

What is an *ADVANCED* diver??

IMO, recreational divers may not even fall into that catagory??

I agree with those who indicate that OW and AOW should be combined.

It seems that skills covered in AOW are really BASIC diving skills that would be helpful for ANY recreational diver to have as they will likely learn the skills along the normal couse of rec diving WITHOUT an instructor. Better IMO to have an instructor there while learning the skills.

Ron

OK, the 50 dive minimum is not set in stone, another number higher than 20 - name a number?, would be better than what we have now. You see, the word ADVANCED is misleading. Why not OW 1 and OW 2?

 

[RonFrank]

You can't get four dives at most resorts for $99.

Most referal courses cost at LEAST $200.

My OW ran closer to $400 WITH materials....

So where exactly can you get OW for $99 as that is not all that much over the cost of the course materials alone??

Ron

But how much would this course cost??? Would new students go for it compared to the $99 weekend course, do the new students realise what they are missing? I know this has all been covered before, but how do you truly make this kind of thing work as an instructor? Some instructors go beyond the basic minimum and try to produce "soon to be good divers", others just try to produce card carrying UW air breathers.

 

[ChillyWaters]

What is an *ADVANCED* diver??

IMO, recreational divers may not even fall into that catagory??

I agree with those who indicate that OW and AOW should be combined.

It seems that skills covered in AOW are really BASIC diving skills that would be helpful for ANY recreational diver to have as they will likely learn the skills along the normal couse of rec diving WITHOUT an instructor. Better IMO to have an instructor there while learning the skills.

Ron

But people taking OW are just TRYING diving. Who would pay $6-700 or so to just TRY a sport??? Not many. But more would pay $300-400 -- the cost of OW. I'd consider OW an intro to scuba diving, and AOW the further training if you're truly interested.

- ChillyWaters