OW v. AOW

[mempilot]

Good questions? I think you'd get some economies of scale, since the classroom could be utilized for an entire day vs. half a day with the weekend course, and the boat could be used for an entire day vs. a half day for each set of dives. In other words, they pay the $60? for the home study couse, and full one day classroom review and testing fee, and then a 1 day pool and intro dive, and 3 days of 3 dives each.

These are just some thoughts. You save money on fuel (not running the boat in and out for only two dives, but 3). You utilize a classroom instructor for a full day instead of half a day. As for cost? Well, a typical 3 tank dive day with instructor is about $135. So...

IE:

Suggested:
Home study ($60)
Day 1: Classroom, all day with final exam ($200)
Day 2: Pool morning, Afternoon intro dive ($100)
Day 3: 3 dives, all day ($135)
Day 4: 3 dives, all day ($135)
Day 5: 3 dives, all day ($135)

Total ($765, Maybe round up to $800)

Currently:
Home study
Day 1: Half day classroom, half day pool
Day 2: 2 dives
Day 3: 2 dives

But how much would this course cost??? Would new students go for it compared to the $99 weekend course, do the new students realise what they are missing? I know this has all been covered before, but how do you truly make this kind of thing work as an instructor? Some instructors go beyond the basic minimum and try to produce "soon to be good divers", others just try to produce card carrying UW air breathers.

 

[gdenny]

Well said. I think the point is to keep learning. AOW, Rescue, nitrox, DIR and especially good mentoring, are all ways people attempt to keep moving forward with their scuba education. And although some ways are superior to others, they can all be good. Remember, in the sport of scuba, the games is never over, you never score the winning touchdown, spike the ball and do your funny dance :monkeydan . You keep learning until you die or quit. And for some of us, that's what keeps it fun.

I agree completely. I am what you would call a vacation diver because my wife hates the cold water. However, we take a class once a year in cold water (Monterey) to get some dives in and keep the brain learning about SCUBA. My wife and I have 30 dives in 18mos. Been to Belize (declined blue hole) and Curacao for diving. We will probably do our AOW before going to Cozumel. The way I see it is that I can dive in Coz one of two ways... with my last dive being in Curacao 10 mos prior and an OW cert. Or after taking the AOW a month or two earlier in Monterey and having 4? or more additional dives under my belt, under varying conditions, under supervision of an instructor, with additional knowledge and training. I don't see where seeking additional training is a problem.

The way I see it, the card is pretty meaningless. I will simply have a few more dives and a little more training. Like the Nitrox course we took before Curacao. We did not take our Nitrox cards and push the limits of multiple dives in a day. We did our dives like always, 3 a day. We used our additional education and skills to mitigate our risk.

In agreement with you all about removing the word advanced. But it seems the skils covered in the course are needed before 50 dives.

Now if you'll excuse me... I'm building my own rebreather for a solo wreck dive I've been planning. :11:

 

[mempilot]

It used to cost about $2500 to get a private pilot's license. That figure now exceeds $5000 for quality training. I owned a flight school for 4 years, and I transformed the low cost crappy quality training and final product into high quality training and squarred away pilots. You know what, I didn't lose any students. We just ended up with commited and safety conscience ones.

 

[ZenDiver]

INow if you'll excuse me... I'm building my own rebreather for a solo wreck dive I've been planning. :11:

building mine too... =)

 

[mempilot]

That's what the resort course is for. Someone wanting to try flying has to fly with an instructor. We called it Intro to Flight and it cost between $100 and $200.

But people taking OW are just TRYING diving. Who would pay $6-700 or so to just TRY a sport??? Not many. But more would pay $300-400 -- the cost of OW. I'd consider OW an intro to scuba diving, and AOW the further training if you're truly interested.


- ChillyWaters

 

[simbrooks]

You can't get four dives at most resorts for $99.

Most referal courses cost at LEAST $200.

My OW ran closer to $400 WITH materials....

So where exactly can you get OW for $99 as that is not all that much over the cost of the course materials alone??

Ron

They dont advertise much on the internet, but i know a few stores that push a weekend $99 course. Most of them state that course then add on the book price, but even so, you can still get by pretty cheaply with pretty poor instruction if you know where to look and are going by $$$ alone

How do you entice someone to pay $800 for a course, even if they are to come out better divers when they can easily get OW and AOW training for half that much combined? I am not saying an instructor cant put in the time to earn that with good instruction, i am only wondering who would pay for it without realising the benefits.

 

[Don Burke]

This question came up in the Hotel Cozumel thread in Intro & Greets section. I think it might be better suited for this section and have its own thread because it might be interesting to hear differing views.

My contention is that a diver should not be able to go for AOW cert till they have a minimum of 50 dives. I also think that getting your AOW WHILE you are getting your OW cert diminishes the meaning of ADVANCED. I've seen divers with AOW cert with less than 15 dives, which I think is misleading. AOW cert SHOULD mean you have some dive experience and not just be a meaningless card. As someone suggested, OW1 or OW 2 would work too, but the word Advanced in the AOW cert is misleading, it seems.

I disagree with everything above with the exception of getting AOW during OW, which no agency I am aware of endorses anyway.

You _could_ sell me on the concept of an entrance exam to AOW.

Dive counting is meaningless. I have seen people claiming two hundred dives who appear to have repeated their first dive two hundred times with no progress.

 

[mempilot]

Realizing benefits is all about the messaging and marketing backed up with superior quality over what they can get somewhere else. It doesn't happen overnight, but a school can differentiate themselves in less than a year. PR and testimonials go a long way in communicating the benefits of a top notch program. Of course, without the blessing of PADI, it doesn't take much to undermine your efforts. My flight school had the backing of Cessna Pilot Centers, Utah Valley State College, and USAIG Insurance Underwriters to help us convey our message of quality and bang for the buck.

 

[Walter]

Suggested:
Home study ($60)
Day 1: Classroom, all day with final exam ($200)
Day 2: Pool morning, Afternoon intro dive ($100)
Day 3: 3 dives, all day ($135)
Day 4: 3 dives, all day ($135)
Day 5: 3 dives, all day ($135)

You are kidding? This can't really be a proposal for improving training.

 

[mempilot]

That's not a proposal for improving training. It's a way of combining the OW and AOW into one course. The quality of the course comes from properly training the instructors and the quality of the material.

Walter, get a grip. A course schedule and fees hardly imply improved quality. I wasn't providing you with anything. I supplied an answer to someone's question of what it could cost to combine them.