OW v. AOW

[hvulin]

...
The way I see it is that I can dive in Coz one of two ways... with my last dive being in Curacao 10 mos prior and an OW cert. Or after taking the AOW a month or two earlier in Monterey and having 4? or more additional dives under my belt, under varying conditions, under supervision of an instructor, with additional knowledge and training. I don't see where seeking additional training is a problem.

this is ok, but maybe you shoud save some money and pay someone expirienced to just go diving with you instead of AOW course! You'll still get the couple of dives expirience, and won't have to pay for materials that you don't need anyway....

but if you like to pay for a course, just go ahead - but remember, your card doesn't mean I will take you any deeper than I feel safe about your diving....

btw. you say you know your limits, but how many AOW certified divers do?

 

[texdiveguy]

Has alot to do with the type and duration of diving you do. I think getting AOW after your OW is fine so long as the indv. diver is skill ready and has a good amount of pers. judgement skills. Alot of folks rant about blue water diving being the best training grounds for new divers,,,,I think you should make the best of the water type in your training area,,whether blue or green water just study and practice your skills and log as many qaulity dives,,,not just quantity.

 

[ChillyWaters]

Alot of folks rant about blue water diving being the best training grounds for new divers,,,,I think you should make the best of the water type in your training area,,whether blue or green water just study and practice your skills and log as many qaulity dives,,,not just quantity.

Well, when I did my AOW (after a long break), we did it in water with nearly zero visibility! I kinda thought... this is what diving is around here, eh? Best in the world my a$$! It was the height of the plankton and I never saw anything until we did the deep dive. Once we broke 60 feet or so, it all cleared up.

But man, I bet that was the BEST time to do the navigation course. Talk about trusting your compass!

- ChillyWaters

 

[The Kraken]

Hey, NWGD, what kind of pooter "was" that?

 

[JRScuba]

Having read this thread and various opinions, the pro's and con's it seems like there should be a basic standard. Everyone talks about education, experience and safety. In my opinion each card represents a different level of training that should be coupled with a level of experience. The variables are 1)Instructor 2) student and 3) the Agency. Since they are all on the basic same page, there are different ways to get there. 1) Instructors teach differently and can be classified as great, good or bad. 2) Depending on the previous, the student is the one that inherently needs the education to dive safely. This is what we are striving for, correct. 3) Every agency has a course with basic skills so the instrctor know what to teach.
Having defined the above, at each learning step there should be a time in between for " Practice ". Although I'm not capable of saying what it should be, Standards should be in place for everyone regardless of their abilities.. Having dove with some great people and poorly skilled divers, this is why I feel this way.
My instructor( I'm quite sure some of you agree with him/her ) that when some students get their OW certification, it's as if the are Navy Seals.

Yes, it does not matter what you call it Advanced, Adventurous
or what ever, it is still an educational step with safety in mind. Rather then get dramatic, I'll end this here. Let your common sense be your guide not your ego.

Happy Holidays

Dive Safely

Joe

 

[JRScuba]

Oh yeah, take the advanced course, more dives, more training, it has got to be a good thing, but choose a good instructor!

Key point. Choose a good instructor. Actually, how does a newbie go about doing this? Instructors do not have good or bad tattooed on their forhead. This is a critical step in getting properly trained.

Do agencies police themselves? Diving it not a do it yourself course.

Interesting topic: How do you pick a good instructor.

 

[Jonas Samuelsson]

Is the padi advanced a good choice for a padi open water diver?

The direct answer is Yes, the reason for this is that how could a beginner diver/entry level diver possible gain more from five "fundives" compared to five supervised dives with an instructor who not only can work on the core dives navigation and deep but also other dives useful for the beginner diver like the elective PPB (buoyancy dive) etc. The instructor can also focus on many skills not directly related to any objectives for the dives like descents, ascents, air consumtion, safety stops etc that is crucial for the beginner diver/entry level diver.

A beginner diver can gain a lot from the advanced course which creates a more independent and confident diver. The option you have to remember is that they in the best of situations dive with a Divemaster guiding them or just together with another beginner/entry level diver.

A diver with 50 already logged dives normally dont gain that much from the PADI Advanced Course because they already are a rel. confident diver with experience from different types of diving environments. Mostly divers with already 50 dives take the PADI Advanced course as a stepping stone towards the PADI Rescue and PADI Divemaster not so much to gain new knowledge or experience.

You might be right about the name however - but that is secondary. PADI is not so happy about the name either and that is one of the reasons why PADI is marketing "Adventures in Diving" rather the the name "Advanced Diver".

Take care
Jonas

This question came up in the Hotel Cozumel thread in Intro & Greets section. I think it might be better suited for this section and have its own thread because it might be interesting to hear differing views.

My contention is that a diver should not be able to go for AOW cert till they have a minimum of 50 dives. I also think that getting your AOW WHILE you are getting your OW cert diminishes the meaning of ADVANCED. I've seen divers with AOW cert with less than 15 dives, which I think is misleading. AOW cert SHOULD mean you have some dive experience and not just be a meaningless card. As someone suggested, OW1 or OW 2 would work too, but the word Advanced in the AOW cert is misleading, it seems.

 

[limeyx]

Guilty as charged! :lookaroun

I did my AOW pretty much straight after my OW, with a few dives in between. For me it was the right thing to do - I got to experience a lot of different dive environments, learn some important skills (navigation, deeper diving) and got me more experience in the water.

It doesn't make me think that I'm an "Advanced" diver. It does make me think - "Oooo I might try the wreck diver speciality".
Nauticalbutnice :fruit:

Just my 2c. I'm going through OW right now (unless I somehow screw up, I am hoping to be certified tomorrow and I'm intending on taking AOW as soon as I can afterward.
I have no illusions about my level of skill, and fully understand that 5 dives of *any* kind cannot make someone "advanced" but I'm not gonna turn down 5 dives with full attention of an instructor! I think it will be a great chance for me to learn about new environments to dive in, as well as giving time to go over in more detail some of the things you just cannot get to in the basic OW class.

nick

 

[ZenDiver]

Just my 2c. I'm going through OW right now (unless I somehow screw up, I am hoping to be certified tomorrow and I'm intending on taking AOW as soon as I can afterward.
I have no illusions about my level of skill, and fully understand that 5 dives of *any* kind cannot make someone "advanced" but I'm not gonna turn down 5 dives with full attention of an instructor! I think it will be a great chance for me to learn about new environments to dive in, as well as giving time to go over in more detail some of the things you just cannot get to in the basic OW class.

nick

Good luck with your OW class and also when you take AOW. You have a good attitude towards the training. I cant think of a better reason to take AOW.

Brian

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Just my 2c. I'm going through OW right now (unless I somehow screw up, I am hoping to be certified tomorrow and I'm intending on taking AOW as soon as I can afterward.
I have no illusions about my level of skill, and fully understand that 5 dives of *any* kind cannot make someone "advanced" but I'm not gonna turn down 5 dives with full attention of an instructor! I think it will be a great chance for me to learn about new environments to dive in, as well as giving time to go over in more detail some of the things you just cannot get to in the basic OW class.

nick

Nick, I applaud you for wanting to continue your education. But AOW should be far more than "5 dives with full attention of an instructor".

This isn't in any way a negative reflection on you ... it's a statement about how many agencies and LDS market the AOW class these days ... to the detriment of the student.

AOW is where you get your first exposure to night, navigation, and deep diving. There are also other electives, but these are the "basic three" that everyone takes. Each of those dives imposes environmental conditions that require skills you usually do not get in basic Open Water class. These skills should be fully explained in a classroom environment before taking the student out in those conditions. If your AOW doesn't include class time, you are getting short-changed.

Navigation skills involve more than learning how to read a compass. You should be learning techniques for swimming patterns, counting kick cycles, timing distances, observing natural objects, and counteracting the effects of current.

Deep diving skills involve far more than simply taking someone below 60 feet and making them solve a puzzle. You should be learning gas management skills, how to deal with the effects of narcosis, a more in-depth look at the effects of DCS and how to prevent them ... and you should be working on your bouyancy skills such that you can safely and dependably do a free ascent from depth.

Night diving skills involve way more than making someone buy a backup light and tank reflector. You should be covering limited visibility diving, managing a buddy team such that you can keep constant track of each other's movements, what to do if your light (or your buddy's light) fails, and how to find your way back to your entry on night shore dives.

AOW is where you should be learning how to plan your dives to the conditions you will be diving. It's where you should leave behind forever the notion that you need to kneel on the bottom to adjust your mask or manage simple equipment issues ... heck, this is where a competent instructor teaches you how to share air and ascend in a controlled manner while the two of you are breathing off of each other's regulator. This is where you should learn how to do proper weight checks ... so that as you acquire your own gear you will have the knowledge to weight yourself properly. It's where you should become familiar with the relationship between trim and buoyancy.

These skills are what makes an advanced diver. No ... you won't perfect them during the class. But you certainly should be introduced to them there.

AOW should be far more than simply five guided dives ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)