OW and AOW

[RonDawg]

I was a little disappointed that 90% of the students hadn't read the coursework, so a large portion of navigation was how to use the compass. I mean, come on!

My instructor sent home a couple of people who didn't come to class prepared. As she pointed out, it simply wasn't fair to those who did study.

 

[mweitz]

My instructor sent home a couple of people who didn't come to class prepared. As she pointed out, it simply wasn't fair to those who did study.

Yeah, well, I think some prefer it this way (unprepared students). It is much easier to "teach" non-thinking students that don't ask a lot of probing questions.

We did a bit of dry suit diving in the pool and had to right ourselves with our feet up. We didn’t have to do any drysuit drills in the water. We just had to dive with them on.

Now, onto the dives. It was pretty bad. (this is long, sorry)

1st Dive – There were lots of issues. My buddy and I dove with the main instructor. No problem, had a nice dive, but didn’t really learn anything. I didn’t particularly care for the drysuit. A bunch of extra work / expense without a large gain IMO (I reserve the right to change my mind on this!). One student couldn’t get down, at least one shot to the surface. Stuff like that.

2nd Dive – This was a night dive. Pretty terrible again. The directions weren’t very good. The instructor also started them when I was in the restroom, so I missed some important stuff (like go S at the end of the dive). We were doing a group dive, but were told if we got separated just to finish the dive. OK. So, we start out, get in a group and there are like 8 or 9 of us. They find this octo so all of us are shining our light on it. Like the thing is on stage. So my buddy and I decide to head off on our own. We follow the directions, but end up at 50’ with 1200 PSI left (this is a shore dive). We decide to surface and swim back. It was a LONG swim back, but no problem or big deal, we still had a smoking dive. So we get back and get this story from another student. His buddy broke a fin strap on the way out, so he got buddied up with another single diver. At some point early he got pretty positive and started a fairly quick ascent. Apparently the instructor held him to about 20’ (he didn’t realize this) then let him go. He surfaced, nobody else came up to check on him, and his buddy finished the dive. He ended up surface swimming back by himself. His "buddy" did miss the first dive due to a blown drysuit seal, but he still should have surfaced to check on him. Those are the breaks!

3rd Dive – (next morning)This was just a quick navigation dive. Drop down, measure your kick cycles on a 50’ tape then do a square. There was a marker at the beginning with a heading, you took it to the next marker (about 25 kick cycles) then do a 90 to the right. We never found the second marker, though we looked like 4 times. We did find the third one and the beginning one, which is even better IMO since we had to be in the correct place for #2….

4th Dive – Just a reciprocal dive by yourself. Can you swim out and back? Wow! You da man!

All the dives were at the same site I did my OW and have done my dives since, so I didn’t even get to know another beach…

We have our Boat dives this Saturday. I’ve done a dozen or so boat dives, so don’t expect to learn much from this. The main theme seemed to be "stow your gear when you return from the dive since boats are so small"

So, basically a waste of money. I did learn how to use the compass, but that was from the Nav book and I had already been doing it. Got to practice with a drysuit a bit. Not bad, but I would expect that if I plunk 2K down for an Armor Shell Pro + Undies they will show me how to use it. Night was super cool. I thought it would be scary as hell. It was the opposite. Very cool, not scary, even the long surface swim.

So, I think with SSI you pay for some guidance and “advanced level” cards. It seems that they play on the “ego” thing. “I’m an ADVANCED OW diver”. “I’m a MASTER diver” (50 dives, sure you are).

 

[eponym]

Now, onto the dives. It was pretty bad. (this is long, sorry)
1st Dive – There were lots of issues. My buddy and I dove with the main instructor. No problem, had a nice dive, but didn’t really learn anything. I didn’t particularly care for the drysuit. A bunch of extra work / expense without a large gain IMO (I reserve the right to change my mind on this!). One student couldn’t get down, at least one shot to the surface. Stuff like that.
2nd Dive – This was a night dive. Pretty terrible again. The directions weren’t very good. The instructor also started them when I was in the restroom, so I missed some important stuff (like go S at the end of the dive). We were doing a group dive, but were told if we got separated just to finish the dive. OK. So, we start out, get in a group and there are like 8 or 9 of us. They find this octo so all of us are shining our light on it. Like the thing is on stage. So my buddy and I decide to head off on our own. We follow the directions, but end up at 50’ with 1200 PSI left (this is a shore dive). We decide to surface and swim back. It was a LONG swim back, but no problem or big deal, we still had a smoking dive. So we get back and get this story from another student. His buddy broke a fin strap on the way out, so he got buddied up with another single diver. At some point early he got pretty positive and started a fairly quick ascent. Apparently the instructor held him to about 20’ (he didn’t realize this) then let him go. He surfaced, nobody else came up to check on him, and his buddy finished the dive. He ended up surface swimming back by himself. His "buddy" did miss the first dive due to a blown drysuit seal, but he still should have surfaced to check on him. Those are the breaks!
3rd Dive – (next morning)This was just a quick navigation dive. Drop down, measure your kick cycles on a 50’ tape then do a square. There was a marker at the beginning with a heading, you took it to the next marker (about 25 kick cycles) then do a 90 to the right. We never found the second marker, though we looked like 4 times. We did find the third one and the beginning one, which is even better IMO since we had to be in the correct place for #2….
4th Dive – Just a reciprocal dive by yourself. Can you swim out and back? Wow! You da man!
All the dives were at the same site I did my OW and have done my dives since, so I didn’t even get to know another beach…
We have our Boat dives this Saturday. I’ve done a dozen or so boat dives, so don’t expect to learn much from this. The main theme seemed to be "stow your gear when you return from the dive since boats are so small"
So, basically a waste of money. I did learn how to use the compass, but that was from the Nav book and I had already been doing it. Got to practice with a drysuit a bit. Not bad, but I would expect that if I plunk 2K down for an Armor Shell Pro + Undies they will show me how to use it. Night was super cool. I thought it would be scary as hell. It was the opposite. Very cool, not scary, even the long surface swim.

I liked reading your summary of the course, Mark. The dive shop I trained at (and now work at) is also SSI. I took the same specialty courses you talked about, but took them over a year's span, one at a time. Started with drysuit because the water's so darn cold here in Oregon, and I love my drysuit. I feel a whole lot more energized after diving, used to come up shivering and dog-tired in a seven-mil. But that's my spare frame and old bones.

Anyhow, I agree about the lack of real content in some of them. By taking the specialties only occasionally I wasn't too bored in "class." And we made at least two dives with the instructor on each specialty, plus a good deal of post-dive chat. I think the specialties could be similar to open water: learn some solid principles, then go out and apply them in increasingly challenging ways. I was doing that today, finning away from a buoy line by compass in ten-foot viz for fifteen minutes, and then heading back to see whether I could locate it. Night diving's not scary, you're right--but minute after minute in green soup with nothing visible but compass and computer is oddly disturbing, in a sensory-deprivation sense.

So, I think with SSI you pay for some guidance and “advanced level” cards. It seems that they play on the “ego” thing. “I’m an ADVANCED OW diver”. “I’m a MASTER diver” (50 dives, sure you are).

LOL! Yeah, I got those logbook notches too, but I don't advertise the fact. Selected "new to diving" on my profile. I figure as long as it's fun, it must be new. Or do I have that backwards?

Bryan

 

[alemaozinho]

There are a lot of posts here regarding the "shortcomings" of the OW courses from the various training agencies. Then there are a lot of posts here from people saying to wait a while before doing AOW. Things such as "Get 30 dives in first" or "Wait till you have your buoyancy down".

I was "sold" the AOW class as the "rest" of the OW class. If the OW class is indeed lacking as so many of you claim, then new students should be enrolled in a AOW class as soon as they can. They (we) get another 6 supervised dives, some book reading (not great, but better than nothing) and some additional classroom and pool time. We also get 4 specialty classes that are geared to our local conditions.

The AOW class also gets new students back into the water, most likely increasing their confidence. From my understanding a lot of people get their cards then never dive again.

So, why not go straight to AOW?

Mark

you,re absolutely right

 

[mweitz]

<SNIP>
Night diving's not scary, you're right--but minute after minute in green soup with nothing visible but compass and computer is oddly disturbing, in a sensory-deprivation sense.

<SNIP>
Bryan

Heh, we had pretty good vis. 20' or so. I *may* feel differently night diving in 5' vis ....

Mark

 

[RonDawg]

Snip...So, basically a waste of money.Snip...So, I think with SSI you pay for some guidance and “advanced level” cards. It seems that they play on the “ego” thing. “I’m an ADVANCED OW diver”. “I’m a MASTER diver” (50 dives, sure you are).

And all this time some people have been bashing PADI specifically for this. Obviously others are guilty too.

 

[jbd]

Yeah, well, I think some prefer it this way (unprepared students). It is much easier to "teach" non-thinking students that don't ask a lot of probing questions.

We did a bit of dry suit diving in the pool and had to right ourselves with our feet up. We didn’t have to do any drysuit drills in the water. We just had to dive with them on.

Now, onto the dives. It was pretty bad. (this is long, sorry)

1st Dive – There were lots of issues. My buddy and I dove with the main instructor. No problem, had a nice dive, but didn’t really learn anything. I didn’t particularly care for the drysuit. A bunch of extra work / expense without a large gain IMO (I reserve the right to change my mind on this!). One student couldn’t get down, at least one shot to the surface. Stuff like that.

2nd Dive – This was a night dive. Pretty terrible again. The directions weren’t very good. The instructor also started them when I was in the restroom, so I missed some important stuff (like go S at the end of the dive). We were doing a group dive, but were told if we got separated just to finish the dive. OK. So, we start out, get in a group and there are like 8 or 9 of us. They find this octo so all of us are shining our light on it. Like the thing is on stage. So my buddy and I decide to head off on our own. We follow the directions, but end up at 50’ with 1200 PSI left (this is a shore dive). We decide to surface and swim back. It was a LONG swim back, but no problem or big deal, we still had a smoking dive. So we get back and get this story from another student. His buddy broke a fin strap on the way out, so he got buddied up with another single diver. At some point early he got pretty positive and started a fairly quick ascent. Apparently the instructor held him to about 20’ (he didn’t realize this) then let him go. He surfaced, nobody else came up to check on him, and his buddy finished the dive. He ended up surface swimming back by himself. His "buddy" did miss the first dive due to a blown drysuit seal, but he still should have surfaced to check on him. Those are the breaks!

3rd Dive – (next morning)This was just a quick navigation dive. Drop down, measure your kick cycles on a 50’ tape then do a square. There was a marker at the beginning with a heading, you took it to the next marker (about 25 kick cycles) then do a 90 to the right. We never found the second marker, though we looked like 4 times. We did find the third one and the beginning one, which is even better IMO since we had to be in the correct place for #2….

4th Dive – Just a reciprocal dive by yourself. Can you swim out and back? Wow! You da man!

All the dives were at the same site I did my OW and have done my dives since, so I didn’t even get to know another beach…

We have our Boat dives this Saturday. I’ve done a dozen or so boat dives, so don’t expect to learn much from this. The main theme seemed to be "stow your gear when you return from the dive since boats are so small"

So, basically a waste of money. I did learn how to use the compass, but that was from the Nav book and I had already been doing it. Got to practice with a drysuit a bit. Not bad, but I would expect that if I plunk 2K down for an Armor Shell Pro + Undies they will show me how to use it. Night was super cool. I thought it would be scary as hell. It was the opposite. Very cool, not scary, even the long surface swim.

So, I think with SSI you pay for some guidance and “advanced level” cards. It seems that they play on the “ego” thing. “I’m an ADVANCED OW diver”. “I’m a MASTER diver” (50 dives, sure you are).

This sure doesn't sound like an AOW class. Seems like they could have benefitted from some experience and better training. I agree it was a waste of your money.