Over-Whelmed, need advice

[markmud]

I agree on last sentence. BPW can be adjusted by yourself. There is information online.


Last sentence is indicating that either your BPW was not adjusted properly, or you are using it in a way it wasn't designed to. You can not inflate BPW so it lifts you out of the water. If you inflate it to keep water level around your shoulders it will not push you face down.

To the OP. Best advice is already given to you. Choose what YOU think is working the best for YOU.

Hi admikar,

I totally agree with everything you wrote. I never felt like messing with and adjusting the BP/W. Again, for me a BC, or BPW, or harness is that thing you strap your tank to and affix your sinkers. I rarely inflate my BC for rec dives. Last week, I think I used it once at Blue Grotto because I was a little heavy at 95'. To much lead. During six days of diving Key Largo last week, I did not use the inflator once.

However, I love effing with my Perdix AI. Especially during a safety stop or "light" deco. That's enjoyable! I love the green bar graph indicating the tissue loading for various compartments. GF 99, surf GF, and even checking the battery voltage is fun.

Adjust a BP/W properly? naahh!

cheers,
m²V2

 

[chillyinCanada]

Look at a back inflate scubapro perhaps Knighthawk for you and Ladyhawk for her.

 

[lowwall]

Less is more when it comes to BCs. Extra fabric, padding, and features that look or feel good in the shop turn into extra futzing when trying to gear up and extra drag and extra required lead in the water. Front air cells means the fit changes as you inflate and deflate and it's harder to maintain trim as the air slops around. There's no comfort advantages either once you are in the water and that 50lbs of tank, jacket, and air turn into 5lbs. I am quite happy diving a steel backplate without even a t-shirt.

If you do go with a jacket style, look for a minimal back inflate version.

 

[DBPacific]

Most dive shops will have a range for you to try on and see what feels most comfortable in and out of water (because they can feel very different when you're wet vs. not wet)

How old is your girlfriend's son? If he's still going through growth spurts, it may be best to get a modular BCD (like a back-plate and wing but I think there are modular jacket systems as well) just so it can be adjusted to fit him as he grows without needing a brand new BCD

 

[lowviz]

I, too, suggest that you start with a jacket BC.

I now mostly dive BP/W's but cut my teeth on a SP 'Classic' jacket. Nice underwater, fabulous on the surface. If you are really wanting to go BP/W, I would suggest the SP Knighthawk jacket before the BP/W. It is back-inflate and a bit of a pain on the surface but fabulous underwater. I own both along with BP/W. The jackets don't have to be SP, but that is what I own and dive.

It is valuable to be able to feel the difference between a jacket and a BP/W. You'll never stop collecting dive gear so why try to short circuit that now?

 

[drrich2]

Hi. I've got a few observations that may or may not help.

1.) On the issue of jacket vs. back inflate vs. BP/W - there're multiple threads on that. I had a jacket BCD that I liked a lot but it had a failure and I went to a BP/W setup (my setup was not one of the inexpensive ones). I like it okay, and it's a chance to learn about a somewhat different way of doing things. Here's the thread where I reached out to Scuba Board for advice dealing with options. Given the amount of effort I witnessed in threading the webbing through it by an experienced shop staff member, I'd have someone who knew what they were doing set mine up, instead of trying to figure it out myself. Jacket BCDs are more 'put it on and go.' But with BP/W you can customize a lot if you want. I'm not too enthused with the separate thigh pocket I bought, though; still thinking about getting one to glue onto a wetsuit. If you go the jacket route, I strongly recommend getting one with 2 cam bands rather than just one. Get weight-integrated - so you have the option of weight-integrated or a weight belt. And with a jacket, get one with trim pockets to help get horizontal trim.

2.) I didn't find more expensive masks to be a better fit for me. I like the AquaLung SeaQuest Visage. And while low-profile masks are popular with some, my face is a difficult seal, and a little water in a low-profile masks fills it faster. Your mileage may vary.

3.) Dive computers. A big issue is whether you want it to log your dives; if so, you need PC download capacity. I really like the computer automatically logging my dives, start & stop time, and graphically showing my depth position at various points in the dive. The next big issue is whether you want air-integration, so the computer tells you your tank pressure rather than having to glance at another gauge. If you combine dive logging and A.I., it can log your start & end pressures and compute a SAC/RMV which is nice. The next issue is watch style (small, can double as a watch - Shearwater Teric, Oceanic Worldwide Geo 3 (I think they're up to?)), puck (e.g.: Shearwater Perdix), or console. A lot of people here like wrist; I dive a wrist and a console. An A.I. wrist unit means a wireless transmitter screwed into one of your reg.'s high pressure ports - thus one more thing with a battery. But a glance at your wrist for depth, dive time, NDL limit, gas pressure and if heading up ascent rate, is handy. A.I. and dive logging capability add cost.

 

[-JD-]

If you can describe the possible dive environments and goals you both will be perusing, you will get more focused recommendations.


On the BP&Wing vs. Jacket debate, particularly the 'difficulty' of the harness assembly, adjustment, etc ...

Much of that "difficulty" comes out of the most fundamental "purist" style of harness that consists of one continuous piece of webbing that runs from one side of the waist belt, is threaded through the plate, comes out as a shoulder strap, threads through the top of the plate, and then back out as the other shoulder strap, down to the bottom of the plate and through as the other side of the waist belt. It is a minimalist style and works for lots of people. Depending on circumstances, what is mounted to it, etc. it CAN range from essentially self adjusting from the waist belt to being difficult to get in and out of if you have limited flexibility and/or needing pre-adjustment to match changing exposure protection. This is commonly called a "Hogarthian" (not the brand "HOG") or "DIR" harness.

I dive both soft packs (integrated flexible "soft" plate and harness) and hard plates that use an "H" style harness that has quick-release buckles and adjusters on both shoulder straps. They maintain the benefits of the modularity (ability to swap the buoyancy wing and how to configure attachments, pockets, weighting, etc.) and provides easy entry/exit and instant adjustability. The way my plate harnesses are set up, I can move my whole harness with weighting, pockets, attachments, etc from a heavy stainless plate, to a lightweight plate, or even a soft plate in about 2-minutes to match the purpose of the dive and exposure protection counter-weighting.

The packs and plate harness I use happen to come from OMS and Dive Rite, but there are plenty of vendors making quality equipment with various details to choose from.

As others have pointed out, the back inflate buoyancy cell, whether in a detachable wing or integrated into a complete BC, dives a bit differently - more stable in trim below but requiring more management on the surface. Try first if you can.

 

[lowwall]

You'll never stop collecting dive gear so why try to short circuit that now?

That's actually not funny. I went from an expensive and bulky bells and whistles jacket to a simpler back inflate to a BP/W with a multi-adjust harness to the same BP/W with a basic harness. Each step made me happier in the water and was actually less expensive. I could have saved the cost of a really nice dive trip if I had started out with what I have now.

Standard jacket BCs with front air cells have two big advantages during initial training from the perspective of the dive shop. They can be resized quickly so you can get the next group of students into the water fast and they excel at allowing those students to bob comfortably on the surface while waiting for their turn to demonstrate a skill.

But both of these advantages come at a cost. A multitude of adjustment straps means more things to break or get caught on stuff, additional weight and drag and additional cost. Front air cells result in greater difficulty staying in trim, and again greater drag, weight and costs.

For certified divers purchasing their own gear, the advantages mostly disappear while the costs remain. You don't need to resize your BC harness between every dive and any open water diver can easily handle a back-inflate or rear wing on the surface - by not overinflating and leaning back a little.

 

[Dubious]

I am going to give a little different advice than James gave; his advice was tempered very well -- cheers James!. Steer away from BP/Ws unless you have a very experienced tech diver or instructor who knows BP/W VERY WELL. They need to be adjusted properly.

It is helpful to have someone help adjust the bp/w but unnecessary. There are enough instructions online plus trial and error go a long way.

I started with a bp/w and never experienced anything else. I started reading scubabaord before I took my open water class. My wife just moved away from her Scubapro Ladyhawk to a bp/w because the Ladyhawk would not fit over her drysuit. She really liked her Ladyhawk. It is back inflate. Our dive shop used aqualung Zuma's for class rentals which are also back inflated. My wife said the lady hawk was more comfortable out of the water. When I asked what she thought of the bp/w in the water she said she didn't even notice it. My wife also likes not having to have so much weight in the pockets with the steel backplate, single tank adapter (STA), and STA weight.

In the end, my advice as a newer diver myself, is to get what you can afford. If you want to save money just buy used, but do your research first. Know what you are buying. While I have no way to back up this claim I will argue that if you have your own gear the more diving you will do. Rentals just add one more hurdle for you getting into the water especially if your dive shop is not close. We rented tanks for a while and that extra trip to the dive shop on Monday to drop off the tanks sucked up time and gas money.

 

[Jayfarmlaw]

Not so long ago, I was standing in your shoes overthinking, over researching, over spending, and drinking more than I should trying to figure out what to buy. 6 years later I'm the proud owner of at least 8 bcd's.....

My take is a little different. I find these truths to be self evident-Everyone is right. Not any one bcd is right for everyone, one size does not fit all, and Epstein did not kill himself.

My advice, unless you just want to amass a collection of bcd's when you can only dive one at a time is to beg, borrow, rent, or steal all of them. Pool dive them where you can, some shops have a try before you buy program. The options are damn near limitless and your bcd needs to fit your needs. If most of your diving will be on trips, some bcd's are more travel friendly. Don't want to mess with setting up a backplate or softplate and wing, look at a back inflate bcd. Like the hug of a jacket type, your options are never ending.

My goto rig is a softplate and wing because it is more travel friendly and is customized to my needs. YOUR choice may not be my choice, but it's absolutely right for you. The only way you will know what is best for you is to dive as many as possible. You will probably end up upgrading or changing the set up once you get some dives under your belt...it happens to us all. Don't ask me how I know.

A serious crack habit would be cheaper, but much less interesting. Dive everything you can, then narrow down your choices. Ultimately you will still make the wrong choice and spend more on something else later, but all that money isn't going to spend itself and none of it will matter once the virus kills us all.

Good luck with your search,

Jay
Founding Member of Gear Whores Anonymous