Out of Air on Descent

[CajunDiva]

I'm a bit taken aback by this.

1) Are you (or whatever diver receives this treatment) are using non-standard gear? So what looks open for you looks closed for 99% of the gear they see?

2) It is a way of griefing you that won't come back at them? ("I didn't change his valve! I thought it was closed but he jumped in before I could do anything! Honest!" Says the passive-aggressive crew member.)

3) Is it ever a smoke screen? As in the diver knows they made a mistake but doesn't want to look like an idiot in front of other divers so "somebody else did it" is the story they stick to?

4) Do you think the crew members sometimes just have honest homicidal intent?

5) Something else entirely?

It seems like a dangerous habit that the dive boat operators who want to avoid the hassle of bringing back dead (or angry) divers would train against. What am I missing?

You are not taking into account the fact that experience is the best teacher. After you get a number of dives under your belt, you will see that a variety of issues can arise during the time you are preparing for a dive or during the dive itself, and yes...even AFTER the dive.

One such issue is that sometimes o-rings leak, causing loss of air in your tank during the ride out to the dive site. Sometimes crew members think they are being nice by turning off your valve to prevent this from happening. I once had all my gear set up, had been through our buddy check, made sure my air was on and then did a giant stride off the back of the boat...only to discover (WHEN I TRIED TO BREATHE AND COULDN'T) that the captain had turned off my air valve. Fortunately, I like to pop back up to the surface after I enter the water to give the "OK" signal, so my BCD was full of air. It turned out to be not such a big deal, but let me tell you - you haven't lived until you've seen a fired-up Cajun :amazed: Since that moment, I have not wanted anyone touching my tank valve EXCEPT my buddy.

So it's really a matter of perspective. Crew members just want to be helpful, but each diver has their own preferences, so what is helpful to one is definitely not wanted by another. I think each diver develops their own dive personality based on their experiences, and it's up to them to clearly communicate their wishes to the crew they are diving with in a clear and polite way. Then great new friendships and dive buddies happen and all is right with the world

 

[lowviz]

...//...Any thoughts? ...//...

Does your husband now know how close he came? I was taught primacy: #1 Always have something to breathe.

-He sounds seriously independent topside, but can he reach and open his own valve underwater? Or is he totally dependent where it counts?

At 350+ dives, I'm still nowhere near happy with my ability to manipulate valves. I can save myself, but it is still ugly. Sports, damaged rotator cuffs, age, the arms just don't want to go back there. They must, and will if necessary.

 

[Mitchell Teeters]

Loondiver, thanks for the story. I will make sure I have learned from your experience.

Re the octo: Just train with what you have, no matter the configuration. Know your buddy's, train with it as well. I use a latex hose I bought from NEDS and just bungeed it w/o knots. I can just pull it out of the zip tie if need be. It takes force so accidentally releasing it is a non-issue.

Thanks for having the guts to post this.

M

 

[nimoh]

On the good news front - very specific, nicely worded requests to crew, to NOT touch valves, are typically respected. My preference is six-pack-type operations on which this is not an issue at all, but the few times I've dived off the larger boats in the last few years, I've not had a problem. Also, in addition to regular checks, especially when diving a single tank, I still take the three breaths looking at the SPG right before stepping off, just in case someone forgot my request.

I check that my valves are all the way open before getting in the water, as well as taking a few breaths from both regs.

The reason for this, is that I read (an more importantly, it makes sense to me) that a valve partly open may breathe alright on the surface, and with no fluctuation of the spg needle, however at depth, the valve might not be able to deliver enough gas.


One other comment, I think that when you get the out of gas signal, whether or not you were planning on doing a drill, you should not be thinking "is this a drill?". I understand you were caught off guard, and I think you handled it well, just some food for thought.

 

[lowviz]

...//...The reason for this, is that I read (an more importantly, it makes sense to me) that a valve partly open may breathe alright on the surface, and with no fluctuation of the spg needle, however at depth, the valve might not be able to deliver enough gas. ...//...

No, she is right.

That is why you take three HARD breaths and watch for the slightest movement of the needle. One and a half breaths will exhaust even a long hose, the rest will put a demand on the restriction caused by the valve being almost closed.

Not a perfect check, but a very good final check.

 

[nimoh]

No, she is right.

That is why you take three HARD breaths and watch for the slightest movement of the needle. One and a half breaths will exhaust even a long hose, the rest will put a demand on the restriction caused by the valve being almost closed.

Not a perfect check, but a very good final check.

thanks, sounds like I might have to use my pony bottle in an experiment on my next dive

 

[lowviz]

I know where you are going with this and I completely approve of your mindset.

-bet you CAN'T find a valve setting that won't give you a deflection but will cut off at depth...

BTW, those three breaths are the same ones freedivers take. So if you do have a problem, just go to freediver think.

 

[nimoh]

I am inclined to think that you are correct, mostly since I have nothing to add to the contrary, but should be a fun experiment

 

[lowviz]

Figured you would.

Just to be explicit: -ALWAYS keep your primary air supply in prime shape. No reason you can't play with your pony and get the same result. (I know that you know, but not everyone reading this thread may be following you.)

 

[stairman]

Sometimes jumping in with air turned off is a rookie mistake and sometimes its not. Conplacense is the word just not sure how to spell it. Slowing down and doing a predive check of everything is important. In cavern and cave training, an S drill consists of descending, and motioning OOA. Your buddy then gives the reg from their mouth and takes his backup. The ok sign is given and it is then reversed with your buddy signaling OOA. This ensures that your long hose is above all other hoses and equipment and gives you the motor skills training to not have to think about it much. It takes the sloppiness out of the drill as well doing it often. The reasoning for giving the reg from your mouth is you know its working and your less likely to hand off a backup reg upsidedown. You both learned from the misshap without anyone getting hurt and brainfarts happen so youve got to battle them with what-if practice for emergencies.