"Out-of-air" and "share air" signals

[Marek K]

Is there a reason why the major agencies -- at least PADI and SSI -- teach two consecutive hand signals for OOA? First "out-of-air," followed by "share air"?

Seems to me that's redundant, time-wasting, and not something an OOA diver needs to be doing. "OK, so you're out of air. What do you want me to do?"

I always agree with my dive buddies to just use the "out-of-air" signal; if I see them slashing their hand across their throat, I'm going to be shoving my octo in the direction of their face without waiting for another signal.

Is there any down-side to this? Worst case, I'm holding my octo in my hand -- and that's not bad, like if buddy grabs my primary out of my mouth. Any conceivable situation why anyone should also use the "share air" signal in that case?

(OK, how could this thread devolve?

Agency bashing? Long hose/bungeed octo vs. standard set-up? I hope not.)

--Marek

 

[Snowbear]

For what it's worth (the paper it's printed on?), I agree with you..... If someone gives me the "I'm Outta Air" signal, they're getting my reg. No need for another, "Please share yours with me" signal

 

[mania]

I also agree - no need for the second signal. But... Marek, You don't gove your octo - you give your primary regulator and you switch to your octo.
For one major reason - a diver OOA is panicked and he needs to get a reg that he sees it's working!!!! And as long as it's in your mouth and you are breathing - he knows it's working.
And anyway - most of OOA divers would simply grab your regulator from your mouth....

 

[Marek K]

I also agree - no need for the second signal. But... Marek, You don't gove your octo - you give your primary regulator and you switch to your octo.
For one major reason - a diver OOA is panicked and he needs to get a reg that he sees it's working!!!! And as long as it's in your mouth and you are breathing - he knows it's working.
And anyway - most of OOA divers would simply grab your regulator from your mouth....

Hi Mania--

Please see my comment in parentheses in my initial post... you're verging inexorably into the long-hose-and-bungeed-alternate rationale. I understand that rationale, but honestly didn't want to debate that here.

I use a standard/conventional/traditional setup. I plan to donate my alternate, which I am confident is in working order. That's how most agencies (with one exception !) train their entry-level divers. Though I'm prepared if someone does grab my primary.

Oh no... we're debating, aren't we? :11:

--Marek

 

[neil]

I think all that hand jive is wasted time. I teach "no signals" (they do learn what they mean). Get it. Breathe it. Calm down. Go home.

 

[OE2X]

Just to add my .02 here:

If someone starts flashing their light vigorously in my direction, they will find a regulator being stuck in their face.

When in doubt donate.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

...you're verging inexorably into the long-hose-and-bungeed-alternate rationale. I understand that rationale, but honestly didn't want to debate that here.

I use a standard/conventional/traditional setup. I plan to donate my alternate, which I am confident is in working order. That's how most agencies (with one exception !) train their entry-level divers. Though I'm prepared if someone does grab my primary.

Long hose versus short hose has nothing to do with it. The reality is that all training and pool work aside, in the real world an OOA recreational diver is going to go for your primary the majority of the time and signals of any sort are not normally involved.

I have donated air in 3 genuine OOA situations over the course of about 1700 dives and in 2 of the 3 cases, it was a case of being mugged for the primary with none of the time consuming out of air/share air signal mumbo jumbo taught in training. The third case was a situation of an experienced diver with a freeflowing regulator during an ascent where things prooceeded in a much more planned and orderly manner with a temporary air share while things were turned off and thawed.

But since you brought it up, a long hose is much more covenient given the reality that the OOA diver will be on your primary and even in the third case mentioned above where things went as planned, donating the loong hose primary, gave each party more room to work and made maintaining bouyancy, etc much easier. I also don't think there is any need to debate it - there are and always will be two points of view, those who have tried it and switched and those who will but just don't know it yet.

 

[scubamate]

If my buddy, (or anyone near) runs out of air they get my alternate. My primary is mine and I'm not the one that didn't watch my gauges. Besides, when you take your primary out of your mouth, you in essence have two divers without air. If your alternate is located properly and contrasts with the rest of your equipment it will be easy for anybody to find, even the owner (donor). The only exception to this is for divers that have an alternate integrated into their BCD LP inflater.

 

[Mako Mark]

The second "please" signal is redundant. I dont teach it...

I teach :THIS IS A FREAKIN EMERGENCY...

say thankyou later..

.

 

[Marek K]

OK *sigh*, despite my best efforts, here goes the debate again. :06:

As for me, I appreciate the consensus that there's no need for the second "donate air" signal, even in theory.

And with that, I'm bowing out of the debate.

--Marek