"Out-of-air" and "share air" signals

[miketsp]

Marek,

It is a required drill on the PADI OW course. Turn off the tank, give the OOA signal, the buddy donates his alternate air source, which both divers know is working fine, because it was tested during the Pre-Dive safety check. Then both divers ascend slowly to the surface.

And for what it's worth, I will also donate my alternate. Whats in my mouth is mine.

Scubafreak

Great when pool diving....
No mud to drag the alternate through, no coral or barnacles to rip mouthpieces on, no real depth to loosen screw on covers.

 

[bullshark]

Is there a reason why the major agencies -- at least PADI and SSI -- teach two consecutive hand signals for OOA? First "out-of-air," followed by "share air"?
--Marek

There may be other reasons to share air, besides being STUPIDLY, UNFORGIVABLY OOA.

The speaker may think his air is tainted.
The speaker might want to practice air sharing.

Bear in mind, that taking a regulator without permission is a reckless endangerment and assault charge should the unwilling/unwary/surprised donor choose to make an issue of it. Stealing a regulator from the wrong person at the wrong time could easily result in their death. You only need to inhale a small amount of water to be unrecoverable while underwater. Stupidity and carelessness does not suspend reponsibility or duty to respect the safety and peace of others.

OOA? Just say "No!" it's as simple as that.

 

[jonnythan]

It is a required drill on the PADI OW course. Turn off the tank, give the OOA signal, the buddy donates his alternate air source, which both divers know is working fine, because it was tested during the Pre-Dive safety check. Then both divers ascend slowly to the surface.

The PADI standard is to turn off the tank in order to begin an OOA practice?

That can't possibly be correct, can it?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Bear in mind, that taking a regulator without permission is a reckless endangerment and assault charge should the unwilling/unwary/surprised donor choose to make an issue of it. Stealing a regulator from the wrong person at the wrong time could easily result in their death. You only need to inhale a small amount of water to be unrecoverable while underwater.

That describes why the real life "get mugged for your primary" method of air sharing is not practiced in a pool.

The problem is that in real life when a diver dicovers they are OOA, they are invariably 20 feet from a buddy who is swimming in the same direction they were and is now in effect swimming away from them. By the time the OOA diver runs the nearest diver (not always their buddy) down they are seriously short of air and in serious O2 debt and are by no means going to think about the niceties of the out of air signals that worked so well when face to face 3 feet from each other in a crystal clear pool. They are also not going to be considering reckless endangerment and assault charges as they are not even in the same league in terms of being an immediate threat like their current OOA and on the verge of drowning crisis.

So in short, they go for the primary becuase they know exactly where it is and they know it works. It is also making bubbles and at that point they want to be abel to make their own bubbles really really bad.

So if you ascribe to the theory that you should train for real world conditions, the 2 OOA signals and accept the octo approach is grossly inadequate. At a minimum agencies should be teaching the donate the primary approach.

 

[pete340]

the buddy donates his alternate air source, which both divers know is working fine, because it was tested during the Pre-Dive safety check

Wrong tense. Should be "both divers know WAS working fine". Something might have happened to the regulator after the safety check.

 

[FreeFloat]

I was trained NAUI and I don't recall a "let's share air" signal. It was the hand-slash means "out of air" and the only correct response was a reg donated to the OOA diver. My instructor drilled into us that the OOA was a command signal, no discussion, no further signalling, and the only correct response was to hold out a reg.

In further diving I have also been taught that a flashing light signal is to be met with a donated reg as the response. If the reg isn't needed, it's just as easy to put it away again.

Same thing for a fin-tug - I was taught that if you feel someone pulling on your fin, for all you know it could be a lost diver from another buddy pair who's just used up his last lungful of air in trying to catch up to you. For this reason as you turn to see who's pulling your fin be ready to donate - either have the reg out, or, as I prefer, have a hand wrapped around the reg hose ready to whip it out and pass it to the potentially distressed OOA diver. My OW instructor also taugh that any time you feel your fin or any other part of your body contact something, turn and take a look - you might have just inadvertently kicked the reg or mask off another diver. (again a potential OOA situation if it was a reg - and be prepared to donate!) If our instructor ever caught us kicking or brushing against someon/something and failing to immediately turn and look, we really heard about it later.

 

[scubamate]

The PADI standard is to turn off the tank in order to begin an OOA practice?

That can't possibly be correct, can it?

No, it's out of context.

PADI does require the air be turned of in the pool. The student is aware that it's going to happen, they hold their gauges in such a manner that we watch it hit "0" and they feel the restriction on breathing as the tank "empties". As soon as the gauge is at 0, the student gives and OOA signal and the instructor immediately turns the air back on.

As I tell my students when I brief them on this, "This should be the only time you have this feeling of air starvation, watch your gauges"

 

[The Kraken]

"There are several good reasons why you should donate your primary first even if you then exchange regs to leave the OOA diver using your alternate to take advantage of the longer hose.
The main reason is that you know that your primary is working and is clear."

That is the main reason I'm a proponent of the donating diver to maintain the primary regulator and hand off the alternate (in the conventional recreational diving environment).

The OOA diver is already out of air and probably panicking. You're not going to be of very much help if you give your functional regualtor to a panicked diver only to discover that your alternate air source is defective!! Now you have 2 victims !!!

However, I don't think that there is any excuse for a diver not to know that his alternate air source is defective. A proper pre-dive check of regulators should alert the diver to any problem with his regulators. A second check, after entering the water, would indicate if the regulators are functioning properly under water. And then, the proper storage of the alternate air source should prevent any inadvertant damage to the alternate.

BUT to get back on thread, I, too, believe the "share air" signal is superfluous, redundant, or what have you.

 

[miketsp]

"There are several good reasons why you should donate your primary first even if you then exchange regs to leave the OOA diver using your alternate to take advantage of the longer hose.
The main reason is that you know that your primary is working and is clear."

That is the main reason I'm a proponent of the donating diver to maintain the primary regulator and hand off the alternate (in the conventional recreational diving environment).

The OOA diver is already out of air and probably panicking. You're not going to be of very much help if you give your functional regualtor to a panicked diver only to discover that your alternate air source is defective!! Now you have 2 victims !!!
..SNIP..

Dennis,
as donating diver, in most cases you will be calm and quite capable of going without breathing for at least a couple of minutes, plenty of time to get the OOA calmed down and to look for your alternate - after all it's yours and you know where it should be.
If at the end of those 2 minutes you haven't been able to use the alternate and the OOA is still panicking and refuses to share the primary just whip out your knife, cut the SPG off the HP hose and breathe off that.
Mike.

 

[The Kraken]

Now there's a resolution to a problem I've never thought of !!!!
That's thinking outside of the box, Mike !!!!