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Our Access To Noaa/nws Weather To Be Banned?

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Are folks satisfied with the accuracy and general content of some of the commercial sites? Also, on what ethical grounds should the public be required to pay for the content twice? That is once through taxes and again through private serivices. The situation at present seems to serve the public good, at its expense, more so than the proposed alternative.

I have grown to rely heavily upon and trust various NWS products over the years. I can't say that I have developed the same confidence in some of the private sector products.
 
I want to continue to receive my hurricane info directly from NOAAs hurricane website. I've paid to have that data collected with my tax dollars, I'm glad NOAA is providing me access to it.

I don't want to have to deal with commercial sites that have making a profit their primary function. newscasters in raincoats, and caffeine addled talking heads competing for the latest scoop.

I want it straight from the source. A branch of the government that is providing accurate, timely information to the public directly should be encouraged, not put up for sale to the lobbyists and their special interests.
 
dlndavid:
This seems to be pushing the TOS IMO
Not so, its in an appropriate forum for such things, good causes, petitions and solicitations. While it may have government/political issues, its not really on the whole republican/democrat thing and flaming has yet to ensue. Should flaming ensue i am sure myself or others will "prune" :wink:

BTW, being an armchair meteorologist i check out a variety of sources, mainly based on NOAA's info, but some interpreting the data different to give myself an idea of what typical weather and tropical weather might be coming my way. Restrictions to access of this info is a bad thing, but forcing NOAA to produce the data real time so all folks can see and work with it, rather than playing with the models etc before releasing the data is also a good thing. I am still on the fence regarding this one as i cannot quite tell from the wording how things will get pushed along or restricted and if commercial folks will charge (so far i havent been charged anything for looking at weather.com or other sites, but you dont know what the future holds).
 
I think some people may have misread my stand on S786. While I think it is overly vague, as all recommendations to committee should be, I think it long overdue. Understand that it is a recommendation for committee study, not a final detailed bill for approval and it would be arrogant and wrong of a Senator to send a detailed bill to a committee that is to have the expertise and obligation to flesh out those details.

Having said that it is possible that I will oppose the final legislation to come out of committee because of some detail in the interpretation and implementation. Or we might find that the final bill gives us a more responsive and competitive NWS that works for the American people and not a politically popular special interest group.

I’m interested in finding out the agenda of some of the groups opposing the review of NOAA procedures and mission. I’ve discussed this with Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association after their President, Phil Boyer, was lead to make a statement in opposition and before he discovered that aviation weather was specifically excluded from the bill. AOPA was a little embarrassed to say the least when they found out they’d been made a tool by the opposition groups. Senator Santorum is upfront about why he has proposed this and what special interest has requested this bill, but the opposition has not been upfront about where their funding is coming from and after 40 years in politics that puts me on high alert.

The current situation discourages innovation in weather presentation, and draws federal money away from “core forecasting” technologies and methods. Markets can work with good or bad news, but unpredictability is an economic and innovative killer. I use a weather service that transmits detailed and custom weather products via satellite directly to the cockpit of my plane and overlays it over the GPS map presentation, but that weather is delayed by at least 5 minutes because of the way NWS operates. The company providing the service has spent millions of dollars developing the technology and discovering how to best present the information to make it worth more to me than just the NWS core data and I’m willing to pay for that enhancement because it is not something useful to the majority of Americans. I pay more for that enhancement than I should because I’m funding an unpredictable risk that my provider has to take, which is what if next month NWS decides to reverse engineer my providers product and start offering it to pilots free of charge and puts the innovators out of business.

From NOAA I can get tide data, sea condition buoy data, satellite ocean temp data, wind and temperature forecast data, and surface analysis prog data. If I spent enough money on computer modeling I could combine all of that information into one forecast product to predict the best time of day to go kite surfing or scuba diving, but is that a function of government to provide that specialized report or should something with that limited distribution be paid for by the users if they want it all put together for them? This is the question Senator Santorum is asking and why is Senator Nelson opposing asking of the question?

In 1991, the Public-Private Partnership Policy stated “The NWS will not compete with the private sector when a service is currently provided or can be provided by commercial enterprises, unless otherwise directed by applicable law." In 2000, NOAA commissioned a study to determine their compliance with the 1991 act and to further define it given technological and marketplace changes and their own recommendation was “The NWS should replace its 1991 public-private partnership policy with a policy that defines processes for making decisions on products, technologies, and services, rather than rigidly defining the roles of the NWS and the private sector.” A key phrase in the 1991 act was “when a service is currently provided” as that set the tone to force NWS to innovate and be progressive in offering new technologies without discouraging private enterprise from innovating and then having NWS steal their customers before developmental costs had been amortized. The question I ask of opponents to S786 is why hasn’t NWS been reprimanded for violating the 1991 Act, why haven’t they yet acted upon their own study of 2000, why hasn’t NWS taken action on consolidating FAA AWOS and ASOS data into their prediction models, why is NWS allowed to force a 5 minute delay on dissemination of weather data to private firms when it doesn’t do the same for it’s own products, why did NWS lag behind private weather services in implementing Doppler radar coverage, and basically why has NWS been allowed to be the 800 pound bully that doesn’t have to play nice with all the other entities with a stake in timely and accurate weather forecasting? That is the question that Senator Santorum is asking on the Senate floor and in Commerce Committee because NOAA has refused to answer those questions for 4 years in any other forum.

One intent of the 1991 Act was to put the power of determining what products NWS offered in the hands of the people through their representatives and that is why it specifically states “unless otherwise directed by applicable law.” This Act has been ignored by NOAA and NWS and they have determined what products to offer through regulation rather than law making them immune to action by the legislature and without any public input. When a government entity is allowed to set it’s own agenda and priorities without oversight by the legislature for how federal monies are being spent, you have a financial black hole. One alternative to this legislation would be for Congress to sue NOAA for violating the 1991 Act, but I think that would be much less productive for all concerned than creating a law that removes the ambiguity of the original Act.

It’s interesting that I saw this thread yesterday since I spent time Friday with Lt. Gov. Jennings and yesterday I met with a former astronaut to discuss the role NASA will play working with private space operations in the near future, and we used the NWS debate as a prime example of when a government agency forgets it’s mission to lead in scientific research and becomes a tax supported inefficient business operation keeping efficient private business from playing an important role in the overall economy.

BTW: The day Senator Santorum introduced S786, Senator Nelson was also on the floor introducing his pet project of the day to change the name of the Jacksonville court house on behalf of Congresswoman Corrine Brown and Nelson had no objections and didn’t appear interested in what happened at NWS.

Rather than opposing this bill as something must be done to rein in NOAA, I prefer to take a more positive approach and be thinking about what the committee’s recommendation should be as to what constitutes “core forecast information” and how that definition will be allowed to evolve as new technologies become available. Everyone on all sides of this debate believe that severe weather forecasting and alerting is a core function to be continued as is aviation specific forecasting, satellite imagery consolidation, surface depiction charting, NOAA alert weather radio broadcasts, and many other NWS products. The debate and questions revolve around should the government fund a product to graphically display current radar in your car or is that something the user desiring it should pay for. Should NWS be allowed to continue imposing a 5 minute delay on weather dissemination to private firms as a means of maintaining control over the weather market?

As simbrooks points out, this is far from a Republican/Democrat debate, but it is a state versus state debate depending on how much a particular state’s economy or specific industries relies on NWS data. While Senator Nelson may want to continue seeing NWS subsidize the state’s citrus industry, he should be upfront about it and not misrepresent the issue as if it has anything to do with hurricane prediction and notification. Maybe if we all band together we can require NOAA to provide a custom scuba diving forecast showing visibility and water temperature probabilities hour by hour for each of our favorite dive sites. :crafty:
 

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