Orange / Yellow DSMBs - and their use as signals in Tech Dives?

[rjack321]

I can't believe you all are still yacking about this.

Our safety divers join us regardless of whether we shoot a bag at all. (regardless of color). The boat is boring, they want to splash and come down and mime with us about what was on the bottom.

If we don't have safety divers, whatever color bag and whatever it says on the side doesn't matter a whit.

 

[Meltdownman]

Pre arrange the message with the people on the boat of how the SMB is to be deployed. SMB's were not originally designed as lift bags. In situations were it is expected they will be used for that purpose then it is the responsibilty of the diver using it to make sure the ships' crew understands the deployment (i.e. lift or trouble).

If there is a mix of people with/without SMB the crew/captain should take notice and get the communication right before hitting the water. Make sure you talk with other divers on the boat too. The more eyes looking out for trouble helps prevent people from getting into trouble. There is nothing more scary than being blown off a wall and end up 20 minutes from another dive boat and 40 minutes from the dive boat you arrived with! This actually happened to a coworker and his buddy diving in Florida a few years back. Had the other dive boat operator not spotted the SMB they would have both been shark bait.

The Meltdownman

 

[PfcAJ]

My main tech teaching comes from IANTD (I've done one TDI course, hated it, but that's another story). With IANTD the SMB only comes up if you have a problem, i.e you are seperated from the down line or come off the deco station. Therefore I carry one SMB, which is Orange and Yellow, also with my name on it.
If it comes up during a dive the support knows to come and check it for notes or otherwise I have briefed them on what to do if the SMB comes up e.g send down an extra 50% (as Kevin Gurr says 50% will get you out of trouble eventually)
I don't feel the need to carry two SMB's its only going to be extra kit to be worn and and extra kit to replace and I have enough. Most of the time I dived in Dahab, Egypt I avoided sending up the the damn thing unless absolutely required as Russian snorkellers would use it as flotation device!

Must not do a lot of drift diving, those IANTD types...

 

[mitsuguy]

regardless what anyone chooses, the pretty standard yellow = caution, red = danger/hazard seems pretty straightforward to me

also, with orange/red being more visible, that would also coincide with it being more important...

 

[billmas]

Hi All,

I am a newbie UK Diver, but from what I have read *and* from listening to boat skippers, here in the UK they basically expect an orange SMB for a typical/normal ascent. I think it is worth bearing in mind that <6 ft vis can be typical on the South East Coast of England so a "return to shot" dive can easily become "what shot?". There are buddies of mine who have probably deployed an orange SMB for every one of their last 100 dives or so. (I'm so new I don't know what a hundred dives look like - so dont ask me!!!!).

So yes, here in the UK (whilst not a formal standard by any means) it is usually Orange for 'A-Okay' and yellow for 'A-Oh need help'. Should you ever send up an Orange and Yellow on the same line that would be 'A-Oh dear God I'll be there in a minute'.

(sorry, too new to post a link you'll have to cut and paste)
ukdivers.com/forums/thread-811.html

As I said earlier though this is not a standard by any means, I personally choose to include discussing with the skipper/cover as part of the pre-dive brief what the different colour SMB means to me and them, so we both know what to expect.

What I found most worrying on a recent dive holiday to Malta, whilst preparing for a shore dive into (and below the boats of) Marxamset Harbour, was asking the dive guide "if I have to pop an SMB in there, will the boats understand what it means (ie diver below)?".

"I don't know" was the answer. Scarey, very, very scarey.

I don't think it matters what colour we choose to use, as long as the people above us understand what it means. I would be horrified to think that yellow vs red had different meanings in different parts of the world. I don't care if we agree on green or pink - as long as we all agree on it. Even more important than our 'diver aware' boat cover knowing what the colour means is that the pleasure boaters, jet ski-ers etc, not thinking that an SMB is part of their race course.

To that end, there is a fairly active group of people over here in the UK that make a point of putting up notices on harbour and marina noticeboards.... to try to inform the pleasure boaters of what an SMB looks like and what it might mean to them (ie keep away). (Can't find a link... sorry!).

So with regard to SMB colours....

1. it needs to be agreed upon and IMHO become a standard
2. scientific testing of the visibility of different coloured SMB and visual surface signals has been done. Those findings should be taken into account when agreeing (1)!

For point two above .. you yanks already messed up the size of a gallon, maybe we shouldn't let you get too involved with SMB colours :mooner:

Dive Safe,
Bill

 

[fdog]

Meh. I'm a left coaster, and have never been in a BSAC class.

• Yellow=Help
• Orange=Something other than Help, figure it out by context

For the life of me I can't find it anymore, but a looong time ago on TDS there was a photo of a yellow liftbag, with a big arrow pointing down and the word "STUPID"...


All the best, James

 

[ambertiger]

Hi guys here is an interesting link from Undercurrent Magazine which states that Yellow is the most visible colour at sea. For most recreational divers it's a toss up between 'shall I buy orange red or yellow'. I will go for yellow and the bigger the better.

Some interesting links below.

http://www.rubicon-foundation.org/dspace/bitstream/123456789/7727/1/SPUMS_V31N2_13.pdf

Rescue Devices For Saving Your Bacon: Undercurrent 09/2008

 

[Charlie99]

Hi guys here is an interesting link from Undercurrent Magazine which states that Yellow is the most visible colour at sea. For most recreational divers it's a toss up between 'shall I buy orange red or yellow'.

A boat capt in SE Florida told me the most visible color was fluorescent green. It's not that international orange and red were hard to see .... the problem is that there are lots of other things, such as lobster pot buoys, that are red or orange.

I have a yellow DSMB simply because that was the only one in stock the day I bought it

My last use was a couple of days ago in 10' of water. It worked as intended, and the outrigger canoe went around me rather than over the top of me as we both went in through the surf line. The steersman on the outrigger canoe doesn't care whether it's a red dive flag, or an orange dsmb, or a yellow sausage. He just steers clear of it, particularly when he noticed it was moving.

 

[maninthesea]

Slightly off topic ..... the best labeling I've seen of a DSMB was the one with the label "JIM", with a helpful arrow pointing downwards for those that couldn't figure out where Jim was.

His inspiration was probably those dive floats with the label "Diver Below". It does help clueless boaters figure out the purpose of the pretty red float with a flag.

Hey you forgot the fine print!
"JIMBelow with sharp knife

Name so when there are many divers or groups doing a drift the boat crew can be confident which one is Jim(who does not NEED imediate pickup when he surfaces unlike many divers)
rest of message inspired as a deterant to those who want to either salvage the nice pretty float they just happened upon or the overzelous beach lifeguard that paddles out to save "Jim" by trying to lift him out of the water while he is attempting to complete decompression.
Both of which DID happen.

Regarding Color- Unless I am in a place where its spelled "Colour" I prefer to use Yellow for all OK and orange for emergancy since Orange is more visable especialy in dawn/dusk situations and if there is an emergancy I want visability. All crew are prebreifed becuase we know there are different schools of thought on this.

As a side benifit the Orange tends to sunfade faster so if you do fair amount of time hanging on a bag in the warm sun you are not fadeing out the hunters orange SMB.

Cheers
Jim

 

[Charlie99]

Regarding Color- Unless I am in a place where its spelled "Colour" ...........

Ding, ding! We have a winner.

The definitive answer regarding yellow and orange DSMBs.

If the colors of your DSMBs are orange and yellow, use orange for emergency.

If the colours of your DSMBs are orange and yellow, use yellow for emergency.