Opinons about "Spare Air' device

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Hi,

Thanks for the very comprehensive reply.

Was wondering what you thought of the H2Odyssey Extra Air Source? Could that be considered a "middle ground" between a Spare Air and a pony bottle? Is it in fact a type of pony bottle but smaller?

Would appreciate any comments on this.

Thanks

Sy





DA Aquamaster:
Tanks:

My wife used a 15 cu ft Catalina. The advantage was that the service pressure was 2015 psi and you could transfill it from an AL80 at the dive site. Plus the bouyancy traits of both the 15 cu ft Catalina and 14 cu ft Luxfer low pressure tanks were great. They were esseatially neutral when empty with the valve ad reg attached (so they required no additional weight to be used) and were only about 1.5 pounds negative when full with valve and reg attached, so they did not massively overweight the diver.

The currently available 3000 psi ponies from both sources are couple pounds more negative than their previsouly available low pressure counterparts so you end up having to remove a couple pounds of lead to remain properly weighted.

OMS offers 2400 psi ponies but they are again a bit too negatively bouyant for my preferences.

I would go with a 19 cu ft tank as compared to a 13 cu ft tank. It will be about 5 inches longer (which make no difference in how the tank rides or feels underwater regardless of whether you tank mount it or sling it.) A 19 cu ft tank will only be 2 lbs heavier (6 versus 8 pounds) and the diameters are identical. And the larger 19 cu ft tanks are normally about a pound less negatively bouyant.

The Luxfer and Catalina 19 cu ft ponies are virtually the same bouyancy wise with the Luxfer being slightly heavier in weight (about 4 oz), an inch longer and with a capacity of 19.9 cu ft as opposed to the Catalina's 19.0 cu ft.

In comparison a Luxfer 30 is about 3.5 lbs heavier, 3" longer, and .5" larger in diameter. If you don't mind the extra weight, it offers 50% more air and is large enought to make a useful deco bottle which can help the resale value if you sell it. The bouyancy traits on the Luxfer 30 are great in that they are back to being neutral when empty with a reg attached - a very nice trait for a deco or pony bottle. The Catalina 30 is less desireable as it is 2 lbs heavier and another 1/2 inch larger in diameter, and is another pound more negatively bouyant.

In short, if weight is a factor go with a Luxfer or Catalina 19, if 3.5 lbs won't cause problems, go with a Luxfer 30.

Regulator:

Regulator wise I am a big fan of simple unbalanced piston designs for pony bottles and deco bottles. I currently use Scubapro Mk 3's and Mk 200's on mine - including the original MK 3 I bought as my first regulator in 1983. They are extremely durable, very simple and very reliable. The design is great for emergancy use as it uses no high pressure o-rings in dynamic applications and has only 2 dynamic o-rings in the entire system.

Another nice thing about an unbalanced first stage is that even with a balanced second stage, the inhalation resistance increases noticeably when the tank pressure falls below about 300 psi, so you get ample warning that you are alomost out of gas - this allows you to maximize a safety stop without running the risk of having to do an out of air ascent from your safety stop even if you are not using an SPG.

The current Scubapro R190 and R295 second stage that are packaged with the MK 2 are fine for pony bottle use and will deliver good perfromace to 130 ft. For deco applications I prefer balanced second stages (given that on a deco dive you spend more time on the deco regs than on your primary and a very easy breathing rgulator is very nice to have.) I used older metal cased Scubapro Balanced Adjustables since they also have virtually no problems with dry mouth (which can be a problem if breathing aviation grade O2) but the new G250V with it's metal air barrel or the original old style G250 would also be a great choice and an SP dealer can order a MK 2 G250V combination from Scubapro.

There is the option to buy good used equipment and I am of the opinion that a properly maintained and serviced used regulator is often a much better inverstment than new equipment.

SPG:

There are three options.

1. No SPG - The logic here is that a pony is for emergency use only and should be checked at the surface prior to each dive. Since you know it is full and you will be ending the dive and immediately ascending to the surface, underwater knowledge of the contents of the pony is irrelevant. The downside is that you need to check the air on the surface which means having a dedicated tank pressure gauge or alternatively hooking up your primary system prior to each dive - which over the course of numerous dives can use a fair amount of air limiting what you will have if/when you need it (another argument for a 19 versus a 13).

2. A normal SPG on a short 6 or 7" hose, if carried as a slung pony or on a normal lenght hose if tank mounted. - This allows you to readily see the remaining tank pressure under water but adds an additional hose and additional mechanical complexity in the form of another high pressure o-ring and the high pressure spool.

3. A button SPG on the first stage. - This allows easy (if not exactly plus or minus 100 psi precision) confirmation of the tank pressure prior to the dive with no gas loss and with reduced complexity (no hose and no HP spool to fail and leak) underwater. It is a bit hard to read underwater on a slung pony and is impossible to read on a tank mounted pony. But it does offer a reasonable compromise between a full blown SPG and no SPG and the cost is inexpensive at about $35-$40.

DIN or Yoke connection:

My preference is DIN regardless of whether the pony is tank mounted or back mounted as it is both more secure and less prone to snagging on line, etc. Go with a 232 BAR convertible DIN/K valve and keep the yoke insert in the valve when you travel to ensure you can get it filled at your destination.
 
sytech:
Hi,

Thanks for the very comprehensive reply.

Was wondering what you thought of the H2Odyssey Extra Air Source? Could that be considered a "middle ground" between a Spare Air and a pony bottle? Is it in fact a type of pony bottle but smaller?

Would appreciate any comments on this.

Thanks

Sy

I have not seen one of these up close but personally it looks like an updated version of the spare air.After looking at it from different ways all it is is a 6 cuft pony with a 1st and second stage attached to each other.This is my personal opinion but I think it is too small.As It also looks complex in that you need adapters to attach it to an airsource to refill it.Something else to go wrong.
That is just my opinion but out of curiousity I am planning on going to look at one this week.Just to see it.
Also,after looking at the prices and apparently eveyone is selling them for around 300,you can get a 19 or even a 30 cuft pony for less than half the price.Add a decent reg ulator and its less than the price for the complete set.(That is based on divers direct prices 120 for a 19 cuft pony bottle and a oceanic 8 reg. for convienience.)
IMHO for the same price or a little more,(add an spg strongly recomended)I have a system with more gas/air as a redundant plus the added security of having a separte reg and spg on my redundant.If either part fails (reg or tank for what ever reason) I can replace it with a rental or my backup reg set and continue on my merry way.If something fails on a spare air type,the whole unit out of service.
 
Thanks again for your feedback but I'm starting to have 2nd. thoughts about a b/u air source altogether.

I'm thinking out loud now:

My diving is tropical and conservative in nature. I am almost paranoid about checking and re-checking my gear. I also wash the gear after every dive to remove any salt. I don't like having all kinds of stuff hanging off of me and find and find that to be a hazard possibility in itself. Also, I am frequently amused on dive boats listening to divers talking about all types of "safe diving minutae" when I happen to know that they got trashed at the bar the night before. The drinking issue is the "elephant in the room" in the diving world and have always been kind of astounded by it. Anyway that's my opinion on this and in no way am I making the case that "just because other people do such and such..................."

Sure, anything is possible and in a "zero tolerance" world I would have a b/u air source but in reality how often does a first stage "O" ring rupture or other air supply problem occur? What convinced me to get my own gear was that last year I nearly had a "problem" with a BCD in Costa Rica. The dive shop was in fact "a dive" and the owner was a drunk. I should have known better but their equipment was in lousy shape. Now I know much more and have new dive gear.

People get injured or killed everyday slipping in their bathtubs.

What do you think?

Thanks,

Sy








truck1:
I have not seen one of these up close but personally it looks like an updated version of the spare air.After looking at it from different ways all it is is a 6 cuft pony with a 1st and second stage attached to each other.This is my personal opinion but I think it is too small.As It also looks complex in that you need adapters to attach it to an airsource to refill it.Something else to go wrong.
That is just my opinion but out of curiousity I am planning on going to look at one this week.Just to see it.
Also,after looking at the prices and apparently eveyone is selling them for around 300,you can get a 19 or even a 30 cuft pony for less than half the price.Add a decent reg ulator and its less than the price for the complete set.(That is based on divers direct prices 120 for a 19 cuft pony bottle and a oceanic 8 reg. for convienience.)
IMHO for the same price or a little more,(add an spg strongly recomended)I have a system with more gas/air as a redundant plus the added security of having a separte reg and spg on my redundant.If either part fails (reg or tank for what ever reason) I can replace it with a rental or my backup reg set and continue on my merry way.If something fails on a spare air type,the whole unit out of service.
 
If you think you might want one,do is this.
Go to a store that sells your bcd.Ask them to put a tank on the bcd and put a pony on it in different combinations.With a reg and spg.Only you can make the decision if its right for you and the diving you do.When you rinse the gear off everyting will get washed at the same time so you are not doing it separately.
The way mine is setup and this is what works for me is that my pony is attached to my main tank with the reg bungeed to the cylinder.The mouthpiece of the 2nd is attached to a octo holder on the right side of my bcd.Everything is streamlined and attached to my bcd.The spg is attached next to my main console.Again anything loose is bungeed or secured.
That is me.Like I said,only you can make the decision as to wheteher or not you need one and where.Personally the smallest I would go would be a 13 cuft.
 
In reviewing your desires and expected dive profiles I would consider the H2O Odyssey with 6 cu ft bottle. As others have noted it doesn't give you the amount of air that a larger pony would provide but I think its a better alternative to a CESA. Its definitely a step up from a spare air in in the same price range. The 6 cu ft bottle can be easily carried in your carry on luggage and you can get the fill whip to charge it from a scuba tank. I believe it is easier to travel with than a regular pony. Its also relatively convenient to sling from a BC. IMHO its about the bare minimum for a viable bail-out bottle. I have considered purchasing one to use as a bail out bottle for similar diving. Currently I have a 45 cu ft slung bottle and used a 19 cu ft previously.

Happy Diving,
AL
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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